3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
924
439
63
#1
Calvinism is said to be making a resurgence in America of late. I don't know about that (article), however, I do know it appears to be surging through BDF here.
Calvinism, also called The Reformed Doctrine, cannot in all its formula, TULIP included, make sense of the crucifixion and still affirm its own tenets.

The article below is intended for all people here. Those who may be seeking after Salvation in our Lord. And those who are Christian and to whom the Reformed message says are quite possibly deluding themselves when we think we are saved.
One would also wonder, how does a Calvinist know they are one of the Elect for certain? Because John Calvin said there is such a thing? And "you" are it?
At the end of this article there is an observation and that which led me to share the entire article here due to the truth within it and the reminder to all who hold God most dear. "If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace?"

3 Tactics Calvinists Use Against Non-Calvinists
By Jeremy Myers



In my current series on Calvinism, I have had several Calvinists leave comments about their areas of disagreement with what I have written.
I fully expect and invite disagreement. Please … if you are a Calvinist and disagree with what I am writing, let me know, and present your views!
However, I have noticed a trend in the comments that have been left by Calvinists thus far. There seems to be three main tactics or approaches that Calvinists have used in their attempts to defend their ideas and disprove mine.
1. Name Calling
It always surprises me how quickly some Calvinists turn to name calling as a way to defend their ideas. If you are not a Calvinist and seek to teach your views, be prepared to be called a heretic, a reprobate, a mouthpiece of Satan, and a fool. Some Calvinists may simply say that you are stupid, ignorant, or spiritually blind.
When I was in grade-school, I never understood why some kids thought they could win arguments by calling other people names, and I still don’t understand it today.
Very rarely is there any proper place in serious theological discussion for cajoling, slander, vilification, and the mocking of others.
If you are a Calvinist and you believe that I am stupid, ignorant, and the mouthpiece of Satan because I am not a Calvinist, show it by the weight of your exegetical arguments; not by calling me silly names.
2. Scripture Quotations
Along with name calling, Calvinists seem to think that everybody would become a Calvinist if they would just “read their Bible.” I often find that when Calvinists disagree, they think they can settle the argument by telling the person to go “read their Bible.”
Of course, I find this tactic used by many various groups within Christianity. Most people seem to think that what they believe is exactly what the Bible teaches, and if people would read the Bible, they would come to the same beliefs.

What many Calvinists do not seem to grasp is that reading the Bible is one thing; understanding it is another. Even highly educated and well-respected scholars and Bible teachers disagree with each other about the meaning of the text.
Do I read and study the Bible? Of course! I have been reading and studying it for decades. In fact, it is exactly because of my reading and studying that I eventually abandoned Calvinism.
Often, along with inviting non-Calvinists to just “read the Bible,” Calvinists like to type out longs lists of Bible quotes which the Calvinists thinks proves and defends the Calvinistic system of theology.
Their approach goes like this:
You heretic! If you had simply read the Bible, you would know that you are filled with the lies of the devil! Here’s proof:
Bible Quotation 1
Bible Quotation 2
Bible Quotation 3
etc …​
In fact, one classic book on Calvinism (The Five Points of Calvinism) contains little else but pages upon pages of Bible quotations.
In a post from several years ago, I referred to this tactic as Shotgun Hermeneutics. Some people seem to think they can win theology debates by simply quoting a lot of Bible verses, as if the other person was not aware of those verses and had never read them in the Bible.
Usually, when Calvinists do this to me, I simply reply with a comment like this:
I am fully aware of all of these verses. I have read them many, many times, and I have deeply studied most of them in the Greek or Hebrew, as well as in their historical, cultural, and grammatical contexts. I simply have a different understanding of these verses than you do, and if you read some of the others posts on this blog, you will learn how I understand those texts you quoted.​
Of course, Calvinists think their understanding of Scripture is the only valid one, and part of this is because of their appeals to tradition and authority.
3. Appeals to Tradition and Authority
The final tactic that Calvinists often use to defend Calvinism is with appeals to tradition and authority. Usually, if you disagree with a Calvinist on the meaning of a particular Bible verse, rather than deal with the exegetical evidence that was prevented about the verse, they will say that your understanding is wrong, because it disagrees with what John Calvin, John Piper, or John MacArthur teaches (or some other Calvinist).
I have a book in my library where an extremely popular Calvinist in which he lays and defends the Calvinistic doctrines. When I first read it, I was a Calvinist, but I remember being extremely uncomfortable with how he defended his views. Rather than base his arguments on a detailed analysis of pertinent Scripture texts, he tended to quote St. Augustine (who predated Calvinism), John Calvin, and other prominent Calvinistic theologians.
There is nothing inherently wrong with pointing out that other Bible teachers and scholars agree with your views, but the trouble comes in when some people seem ignorant of the fact that there are many good and respectable Bible teachers and scholars who disagree.
Furthermore, I always find it interesting that Calvinists praise men like Martin Luther and John Calvin for seeking to reform the traditional teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, but then condemn those who want to reform the traditional teachings of the Calvinistic system of theology.
Anyway, even though you can quote a bunch of scholars, authors, and Bible teachers who agree with your perspective, this does not prove that your view is correct.
Main Problem: A Lack of Grace
The main irony or problem with lots of the disagreement that comes from Calvinists is that it lacks grace.
Usually, when a Calvinist engages in the 3 tactics listed above, it is done with a complete lack of grace. I find this most troubling. Why is it that Calvinists, who claim to teach ‘The Doctrines of Grace” are so ungracious when dealing with those who disagree?
If we truly hold to grace, does it not seem that our dealings with others should also be full of grace? I think so.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
972
635
93
#2
can i add to your list?

"you are misrepresenting the reformed position"
"you just dont understand"
"you are semi-pelagian"
"you are saving yourself"
"you dont give God all the glory you take some for yourself"
"are you just smarter than your neighbor for choosing Christ so you can boast in heaven"
"you worship free will"
"if God doesnt micromanage everything or decree everything He isnt really sovereign"
"it doesnt mean all men, it means all kinds of men" :ROFL:

and many more
 

Dibby53

Active member
Sep 29, 2019
156
59
28
#3
“I am persuaded that it is not without the special will of God that, apart from any verdict of the judges, the criminals have endured protracted torment at the hands of the executioner.” - Calvin's letter to Farel on 24 July (for more words directly from Calvin’s pen, read Selected Works of John Calvin)

Calvin was quite happy to see "heretics" tortured and burned for believing the "wrong" things. What a lovely man!
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
924
439
63
#4
“I am persuaded that it is not without the special will of God that, apart from any verdict of the judges, the criminals have endured protracted torment at the hands of the executioner.” - Calvin's letter to Farel on 24 July (for more words directly from Calvin’s pen, read Selected Works of John Calvin)

Calvin was quite happy to see "heretics" tortured and burned for believing the "wrong" things. What a lovely man!
“God preordained, for his own glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation.” John Calvin
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
924
439
63
#5
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


Just to reiterate here. This thread is not intending to attack Calvinists or "Reformed Christians". Its purpose is to open the eyes of those who may concede TULIP is genuine and applicable to themselves, as seekers of the word. And in truth, it is intended also to open the eyes of those who live the Re-Formed words of God that are now called the Reformed Doctrine, or Calvinism. So named for its founder who was a member of the elite and had no compassion for those who were not deemed such. Which goes contrary to the one of two of Jesus' commands. Love your neighbor as you love God and yourself.

Excerpted from this article: https://soteriology101.com/2017/10/14/the-redundancy-of-satan-on-calvinism/
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,204
2,933
113
#6
Calvin was quite happy to see "heretics" tortured and burned for believing the "wrong" things. What a lovely man!
He was simply following the example of the Catholic Church (out of which he failed to come out completely).
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
972
635
93
#7
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
i agree with your link that satan is redundant to have in calvinism. but also think about this: that verse you put there 2 cor 4:4.
did you know that james white and many other calvinists arguee that its actually talking about Jesus' Father? The God (big G) there. i see it as satan as does many translators which is why its with small g god, but he says no big or small letters in greek so its real God. can you believe this people?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,204
2,933
113
#8
Its purpose is to open the eyes of those who may concede TULIP is genuine and applicable to themselves, as seekers of the word.
TULIP simply turns the Gospel on its head, and then these are called "The Doctrines of Grace"!

T = TOTAL DEPRAVITY = No one can believe the Gospel unless he is first regenerated

U = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION = God chooses some for salvation and many for damnation

L = LIMITED ATONEMENT = Christ died only for the elect, and if you are not one of them, you are out of luck

I = IRRESISTIBLE GRACE = If you are one of the elect, you can't help but be saved

P = PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS = The elect will persevere in their Christianity
 

MattforJesus

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
2,039
315
83
#9
Many people might resort to name calling from all the denominations, but those that follow John Calvin, and those like him seem to do it a lot.

It appears like they are kind of motivated by the flesh, although that can happen from time to time with all the denominations, but those that follow John Calvin, and those like him seem to do it a lot.

And also it can happen to many people of all denominations that they can be hypocritical from time to time, but those that follow John Calvin, and those like him seem to do it a lot.

When I think of OSAS I think of people that are relaxed in their walk with Christ, and have worldliness about them, and seem to enjoy the world as the world enjoys it, loving money and material things, and going by their wants, which cannot be denied for we can see their lifestyle especially in America.

Which all denominations can have people like that, but those that follow John Calvin, and those like him seem to be more involved in it percentage wise.

When I think of OSAS I think of those mega Churches with the worldliness about them, and many of them do like those mega Churches, and those worldly Christian groups.

And if this is true what Dibby53 said, Calvin was quite happy to see "heretics" tortured and burned for believing the "wrong" things. What a lovely man!, then he did not show the love of Christ, and went against what Christ taught.

Which they might not even care about all what John Calvin believed, or his lifestyle, but they like his beliefs that they cannot fall and that way they can enjoy the world and sin without worry, and the low responsibility factor it produces.

So if he was in to persecution does not matter to them they just like the no fall belief all the while God says He wants everybody to be saved, and Jesus lights every person born in this world, and many are called but few are chosen.

So while the people that follow John Calvin will dog out the Catholic Church they themselves persecuted people years ago, and talk about Mohammed persecuting people.

But if you look online many say that John Calvin was for religious persecution, and say John Calvin wrote it himself.

So it is a relief that they reduced it down to name calling, but of course the world knows about each other and would be found out, so they do not want the bad reputation, and people going against them like the government, which is probably what keeps the Roman Catholic Church at bay all the while they are jumpy to persecute someone.

Which is a good thing for if it was back years ago before technology, and the world knew about each other we might be hit.

They say John Calvin was for infant baptism, a state Church, and persecution, but back in the early years it would take some time to iron everything out, which he seemed to have traces of the Catholic Church.

So they have gotten better than from the early days, but I would still watch your back.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
924
439
63
#10
I think deep passions enter into a defensive , or even offensive, mode when discussing an individuals doctrinal commitment because that particular person feels their own personal security in Christ is being challenged when their understanding of scripture is.

However, as relates to false doctrine that Jesus told us would come and to be aware and watchful and ready to defend the truth against it, I think it highly important to gently and yet with the firm truth of the Gospels support, hope to lead those who follow false teachings into the light of God's merciful truth.
We're talking about the eternal state of the soul after all. Is it mercy, is it love for one another, to know someone is following a man-made path in their faith and say nothing?
Surely God will catch it and turn that person about, is one excuse to remain mute.
But is that wise? Is that what we're told to do?


The Book of 2nd Peter chapter 2 verse 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.



The Book of Matthew chapter 7 and verses 21 thru 23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
924
439
63
#11
TULIP simply turns the Gospel on its head, and then these are called "The Doctrines of Grace"!

T = TOTAL DEPRAVITY = No one can believe the Gospel unless he is first regenerated

U = UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION = God chooses some for salvation and many for damnation

L = LIMITED ATONEMENT = Christ died only for the elect, and if you are not one of them, you are out of luck

I = IRRESISTIBLE GRACE = If you are one of the elect, you can't help but be saved

P = PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS = The elect will persevere in their Christianity

I think one challenge to the TULIP formula is to ask, where in the Bible is Total Depravity found?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,065
2,159
113
#12
I think the "lack of grace" comes from being constantly being falsely accused of ridicilous things like "Well that there just meansuhm that God made us robots, thats what yall believe"

There aint nothing much for me to comment on about this, I did find ONE question in that OP and that is: "How do you know you are elect"? Thats easy, you believe in Christ, love God and strive for holiness. This means you are BORN AGAIN.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,065
2,159
113
#13
I think one challenge to the TULIP formula is to ask, where in the Bible is Total Depravity found?
Simple google search woulda done the trick: CLICK

The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
924
439
63
#14
Simple google search woulda done the trick: CLICK

The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).
I am aware of those scriptures, thank you for posting them. Calvinism , Reformed Theology, utilizes terms found in scripture. "Calvinism consistently redefines those words, takes them out of context, applies the doctrines inappropriately, exaggerates the meaning of the words to the extreme, or in some other way distorts the Word of God to match the theology written by John Calvin in his book, Institutes of the Christian Religion. " [source]

The question however encircled the Reformed Doctrine's definition and application of Total Depravity as pertains to the TULIP formula. TD in the Reformed Doctrine, or Calvinism, is derived from Augustine's notions concerning Original Sin.

"Because of the fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the Gospel. The sinner is dead, blind, and deaf to the things of God; his heart is sinful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free, it is in bondage to his evil nature, therefore he will not – indeed he cannot – choose good over evil in the spiritual realm." Excerpt from , Romans, An Interpretive Outline , authors David N. Steele and Curtis C. Thomas

That quote actually hearkens back to the teaching presented in the prior posted video. Why Does Satan Blind Those Born Already Blind.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
972
635
93
#15
That quote actually hearkens back to the teaching presented in the prior posted video. Why Does Satan Blind Those Born Already Blind.
hahahaha.

thinking it twice, why does anyone believe in calvinism? why does satan even need to blind those already blind. hahahaha. it just makes no sense.

i think of another verse that one that says God sends them strong delusion because they dont accept truth, but why? if calvinism is true they are cooked already if not elect.
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
1,126
567
113
#16
I find it laughable that some individuals here would be claiming Reformed individuals lack grace.

For instance, one of them called me "Genius" with the pure intention of calling me an idiot, which is plainly against Christ's commands in the Sermon on the Mount.

The reason he called me this is because of Reformed theology.

Another basically called my convictions in that regard "Satanic".

So, why don't you guys look at the plank in your own eye before claiming others lack grace?

By the way, is that why you started another thread? So you could avoid people seeing your insulting comments on the free will thread?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
1,126
567
113
#17
I would suggest going to the thread "The Absence of Free WilL" and viewing the comments that were made there.

Compare the standards that these guys profess with their own words.

By the way, you can say the same thing ten times and they will still keep claiming there is an inconsistency when there is not.

For example, they keep claiming that if you are Reformed, you have no reason to preach the gospel, because people have been elected already and no one else will be saved.

They don't seem to be able to understand that God ordains both the MEANS and the END. The person is elected to salvation, but the process involves the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, hearing the Gospel, being regenerated, and responding in faith and repentance. It also involves being joined to Christ, and participating in the benefits of this union with him.

Apparently they've been taught some minimalist version of Christianity, and they aren't able to move outside of the script that they've been provided with by their freewiller pastors.

By the way, before they bring this up, Reformed people believe in creaturely free will. Their free will never overrides God's sovereignty, though. The whole "robot" analogy is nonsense.

And, that's the reason why I can't take these rabid freewillers seriously. They don't listen and aren't capable of reasoning. It seems to me like they are a bunch of emotional, vapid individuals who have not studied the Bible very well.

Note that I'm not talking about every non-Reformed person. I am talking about these angry hotheads who attack Reformed believers. I can understand individuals having a difference of opinion on the matter. However, the ones who are rabid like a few on the forums..they can't be reasoned with, nor do they really want to discuss the matter honestly.

And, yes, they do misrepresent Reformed theology and I think it's intentional. They try to tell you what you believe, and then knock down their strawman representation of your beliefs. It's a classic technique when you really don't understand your opponent's position.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
972
635
93
#18
And, that's the reason why I can't take these rabid freewillers seriously. They don't listen and aren't capable of reasoning. It seems to me like they are a bunch of emotional, vapid individuals who have not studied the Bible very well.
thats the reformed grace there again right?

but you say you beleive in creaturly free will we know this. compatabilist but it makes no sense. free will is like freedom of speech, either you have it or dont. if you cant choose freely, you dont have free will. what you guys are saying is people choose according to their nature right? just like dogs do. problem is we see daily people choose against nature. unsaved people choose to do unselfish deeds many times.

can you answer the talk of op? why does satan blind minds who are already in total depravity and nonelect? why bother? why does God send strong delusion for refusing truth when already non-elect and cant believe unless God regenerates? its all meaningless. romans 1 makes no sense in reformed theology either i have read many papers on it. but God gave them up to sodomite after they reject truth too much. but they should already be reprobate if they arent elect. its just pointless drama show?

i want you to think about this please this is important: do you agree that bible is simple book written to simple people? if you do. do you believe that simple people read God saying to israel i have no pleasure in death of wicked, repent? and asking people to repent so much, these people read it and they say "no, God needs to give them repentance or they cant". because then all asks are empty. nobody would think that. i know you believe that they are there to show God's holiness and what man ought to do. but truthfully normal simple people read those calls to repentance as genuine that people can do it if they want. God isnt stupid and yelling at a stone being angry they dont repent if they cant. its God's fault people dont repent and believe in reformed theology thats logical conclusion, He could give them the gift of faith, but witholds it and leaves people to their total depravity (that He caused by cursing them with it when Adam sins) to supposedly be justice? and still God is saying please believe, God is angry at Himself.

its all just so complicated i believe if you need entire website to explain your belief to simple people you are dead wrong. if you have so many verses to answer complicatedly its just odd. thats why most reformed pastors are pseudo-intellectuals like james white and all they do is debate debate debate and poke fun at others who are serving God. reap and sow

and i end it with this: why does devil even exist in calvinism other than he is lackey for God? doing God's will through secondary causes. so God can get away with it by not doing it directly?
 

UnitedWithChrist

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2019
1,126
567
113
#19
Simple google search woulda done the trick: CLICK

The total depravity of man is seen throughout the Bible. Man’s heart is “deceitful and desperately wicked” (Jeremiah 17:9). The Bible also teaches us that man is born dead in transgression and sin (Psalm 51:5, Psalm 58:3, Ephesians 2:1-5). The Bible teaches that because unregenerate man is “dead in transgressions” (Ephesians 2:5), he is held captive by a love for sin (John 3:19; John 8:34) so that he will not seek God (Romans 3:10-11) because he loves the darkness (John 3:19) and does not understand the things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14). Therefore, men suppress the truth of God in unrighteousness (Romans 1:18) and continue to willfully live in sin. Because they are totally depraved, this sinful lifestyle seems right to men (Proverbs 14:12) so they reject the gospel of Christ as foolishness (1 Corinthians 1:18) and their mind is “hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is unable to do so” (Romans 8:7).
Right..all plainly Scriptural.

Total depravity could be expressed better as "radical corruption". Due to the Fall, every part of the man's life has been corrupted.

It does not mean that man fully exhibits his wickedness, as God restrains it through common grace (see Romans 1).

Anyways, here are some of the aspects of the Fall:


The results of original sin include the following:

  • The unsaved live in spiritual darkness (Acts 26:18, Ephesians 4:17-18, Colossians 1:13)
  • The unsaved are spiritually dead and alienated from the life of God(Ephesians 2:1-2, 4:17-18, 5:8, Colossians 2:13)
  • The unsaved hate God, are hostile toward him and his law and are under his wrath (Romans 1:30, 5:9, 8:7, Ephesians 2:1-3, 5:6, Colossians 1:21)
  • The unsaved are slaves to sin (John 8:34, Romans 6:20)
  • The unsaved reflect the character of Satan, and as such reject God’s authority over their lives (John 8:43-44, I John 3:8-10)
  • The unsaved are spiritually deaf and blind and cannot understand the gospel message without God’s direct intervention (Isaiah 6:10, Jeremiah 6:10, Ezekiel 12:2, Mark 4:9-12, Luke 8:10, John 8:47, Deuteronomy 29:4, Matthew 13:13-15, John 12:37-40, Acts 28:26-27, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4)
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
2,974
609
113
#20
I have found (among other things) that Calvinist-teachings fail to distinguish the following Greek words and how they are BOTH used in EACH of the following two contexts (let alone grasping the contexts themselves, of each):

[quoting my post from way back]

Re: "many are called, but few chosen"

G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name"

G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon"


It is important to notice how EACH of these is used in BOTH [/EACH] the Matthew 22:1-14 passage AND the Romans 8:28,30 verses.



G2564 - kaleó / kalesai / keklēmenous - "to call / invite / name" -

Matthew 22:3 V-ANA
GRK: δούλους αὐτοῦ καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους
NAS: out his slaves to call those
KJV: servants to call them that were bidden
INT: servants of him to call those having been invited

Matthew 22:3 V-RPM/P-AMP
GRK: καλέσαι τοὺς κεκλημένους εἰς τοὺς
NAS: those who had been invited to the wedding feast,
KJV: to call them that were bidden to
INT: to call those having been invited to the

Matthew 22:4 V-RPM/P-DMP
GRK: Εἴπατε τοῖς κεκλημένοις Ἰδοὺ τὸ
NAS: those who have been invited, Behold,
KJV: Tell them which are bidden, Behold,
INT: Say to those having been invited Behold the

Matthew 22:8 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: οἱ δὲ κεκλημένοι οὐκ ἦσαν
NAS: but those who were invited were not worthy.
KJV: but they which were bidden were
INT: those moreover having been invited not were
[these ^ had rejected the invitation/call, per vv.3,5,6]

Matthew 22:9 V-AMA-2P
GRK: ἐὰν εὕρητε καλέσατε εἰς τοὺς
NAS: as you find [there], invite to the wedding feast.'
KJV: ye shall find, bid to
INT: if you shall find invite to the

Romans 8:30 V-AIA-3S
GRK: τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν καὶ οὓς
NAS: He also called; and these
KJV: he also called: and whom
INT: these also he called and whom


G2822 - klétos / klētoi / klētois - "to call / invite / summon" -

Matthew 22:14 Adj-NMP
GRK: γάρ εἰσιν κλητοὶ ὀλίγοι δὲ
NAS: For many are called, but few
KJV: many are called, but few
INT: indeed are called few however

Romans 8:28 Adj-DMP
GRK: κατὰ πρόθεσιν κλητοῖς οὖσιν
NAS: to those who are called according
KJV: to them who are the called according
INT: according to [his] purpose called are

[end quoting that post]

____________

I've never seen a Calvinist endeavor to explain this (without "glossing over" what the texts actually say and grasping context).