CHRISTMAS

[Locoponydirtman]

To add on the Magi - history has chosen to honor three, but the actual number is unknown (although it was more than two), and the names, of course, are later "inventions".

I believe them to have been, as their name suggests, practitioners of "magick" (not sorcery). That is, learned astrologers and ones wise in the ways of arcane knowledge. I don't see "magi" as being anything negative at all. Likely from Persia, though Arabia has also been suggested due to the origin of frankincense and myrrh (almost impossible to grow naturally outside the Arabian Peninsula). If they were Persian, they were possibly Zoroastrian.

As afar as the gifts go - I have always wondered if these too were added to the narrative due to their symbolic meaning, or were they actual historical tradition. The value of said gifts goes without saying; particularly the resins - both worth more than gold.

As an aside, the Köllner Dom (Cologne Cathedral) has the Shrine of the Three Kings (the largest reliquary in the western world) - reputedly containing the remains of the Magi. Originally the remains were situated in Constantinople, later brought to Milan, and then "acquired" by Barbarossa and brought to Cologne. The coat of arms of the city, which are at least 1,000 years old, has three gold crowns on the top representing the three Magi.

Interesting information.

It's well creepy to keep the remains of the dead for veneration purposes.

 

[Kavik]

It's well creepy to keep the remains of the dead for veneration purposes.

I believe it was actually opened in the 1800's - don't know for what purpose, but supposedly there were remains of three individuals as well as a few coins from around the time it was built. I have seen the shrine in the cathedral - as a work of art, it is magnificent; the craftsmanship superb.

 

[BillG]

I believe it was actually opened in the 1800's - don't know for what purpose, but supposedly there were remains of three individuals as well as a few coins from around the time it was built. I have seen the shrine in the cathedral - as a work of art, it is magnificent; the craftsmanship superb.

Can you post a picture?

 

[Kavik]

A few photos - you really can't judge the size from the photos. It's around 3.5 feet wide, about 5 feet high, and about 7 feet long. The sarcophagi are made of wood - the inner wooden "core" is also very ornately decorated - what you see here is just the gold 'casing'.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

Give us your thoughts on anything Christmas. Here are some ideas:

Should we celebrate it?
Exchange gifts?
Decorate trees?
Should it be in December?
Wise men
Shepherds
Santa Claus
Etc...

We don't celebrate it but we're not dogmatic about it. We have small children but do no tree or gifts as immediate family, however, we don't prohibit the grandparents from giving to them and us. We will give a few gifts to them and a couple of friends. Seems impolite to just receive.

What irritates me internally is not doing the things Jesus said to do while doing things Jesus didn't say to do... for Jesus. There are plenty of things His Word says to do. Celebrating His birthday at the wrong time of year is not among them. If you dig into how Christmas came about, it's rather ugly. Like Easter, or should I say, Ishtar? Historically, God's people always intermingled pagan things with sacred things. Generally, it really ticked Him off.

Bottom line, He's free to lead us to celebrate if He like - so far He hasn't. We don't do Ishtar egg hunts and like kind of stuff either. We celebrate Christ as our Passover and His resurrection each morning when we take communion as part of our time of seeking the Lord as a family.

 

[BillG]

What irritates me internally is not doing the things Jesus said to do while doing things Jesus didn't say to do... for Jesus.

I think those who love Jesus would be the same.
Whether it be Christmas or not.

 

[blue_ladybug]

How did y'all get from Christmas to remains of the dead??

 

[BillG]

We don't celebrate it but we're not dogmatic about it. We have small children but do no tree or gifts as immediate family, however, we don't prohibit the grandparents from giving to them and us. We will give a few gifts to them and a couple of friends. Seems impolite to just receive.

What irritates me internally is not doing the things Jesus said to do while doing things Jesus didn't say to do... for Jesus. There are plenty of things His Word says to do. Celebrating His birthday at the wrong time of year is not among them. If you dig into how Christmas came about, it's rather ugly. Like Easter, or should I say, Ishtar? Historically, God's people always intermingled pagan things with sacred things. Generally, it really ticked Him off.

Bottom line, He's free to lead us to celebrate if He like - so far He hasn't. We don't do Ishtar egg hunts and like kind of stuff either. We celebrate Christ as our Passover and His resurrection each morning when we take communion as part of our time of seeking the Lord as a family.

Did you read my post 168?
Would be interested to know your thoughts.

You say about God being ticked off.
The reason being was because they then worshipped the pagan gods.

I don't see that today when Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus or his death and resurrection. Even though the dates but are incorrect but on a certain date.

 

[BillG]

A few photos - you really can't judge the size from the photos. It's around 3.5 feet wide, about 5 feet high, and about 7 feet long. The sarcophagi are made of wood - the inner wooden "core" is also very ornately decorated - what you see here is just the gold 'casing'.

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Ta

 

[Kavik]

How did y'all get from Christmas to remains of the dead??

Said dead peeps are the reputed remains of the Three Wise Men which were placed in a reliquary which is in Cologne cathedral.

But, yeah - kind of got off track a bit!