Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
i have panic disorder with depression, i am suffocating at times but my exams keep coming despite that. Tomorrow I will be giving an exam but there is still this irrational panic - a rush within which i know isn't normal. They are giving me sedatives to decrease those symptoms and ofcourse am on antidepressants for almost a year now.
My question is - what does a Christian do here, what is my role when I feel so crippled to do good to anyone? And yes this thread is about 'Not by works' but I fail to understand how to ....just lead a Christian life ....I dont know...with panic coming and going now and then , thus interfering with my studies. I guess all I have to do is keep breathing and keep going on, maybe God knows how crippling this is...this panic and its reactions in my body. Maybe He knows I am not able to do much for my studies right now and neither for others.
You know what is a wonderful thing?
That God counts it as righteousness when we trust I need Him🙂So all you have to do... is keep trusting... and when the evil day comes, stand... keep your Ephesians 6 armour of God on (have a read it will help you), and keep that armoured on, it's a lifestyle.
You can only do your best at your exams, you can't do anymore than that in your exams or anything else in life. God knows, He understands, He helps us where we are at. It only matters what He thinks; we all need to remember that👌

"You will keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on You because he trusts in You"
This is a goodbye thing to write down and stick on the wall and remind yourself of regularly. God's Word is very powerful.
Bless you 🙂
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
The good you are to do is to love your neighbor.
That may be as simple as giving someone a nice smile. It may be recognizing they are in a different place than you, and that's why they seem angry or nasty. YOU, could be the person that is used of God to bring light to them.

It may be writing a post to assure someone that their Heavenly Father loves them. It may be giving a ride, or visiting with them, or lending a few dollars .... on and on.

It's not about putting Jesus, and doing good deeds, number one on a list of ten things you do today.

It's about incorporating Jesus into EVERYTHING on that list today!

Be blessed and be a blessing!
Yes just abide in HIm and you will see Him use you and work through you without you even trying lol...
Some days, lots of days. I have had debilitating depression and have had to ask God to help me even get out of bed... and He has!!😃... He is faithful🤗
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
In all honesty, can't he have an opinion too?
We don't have to agree with it, but he does have equal opportunity to share his beliefs, too, right?
And to do so without being abused.

Do you think he is here to share an opinion or condemn.....I think the latter.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
i have panic disorder with depression, i am suffocating at times but my exams keep coming despite that. Tomorrow I will be giving an exam but there is still this irrational panic - a rush within which i know isn't normal. They are giving me sedatives to decrease those symptoms and ofcourse am on antidepressants for almost a year now.
My question is - what does a Christian do here, what is my role when I feel so crippled to do good to anyone? And yes this thread is about 'Not by works' but I fail to understand how to ....just lead a Christian life ....I dont know...with panic coming and going now and then , thus interfering with my studies. I guess all I have to do is keep breathing and keep going on, maybe God knows how crippling this is...this panic and its reactions in my body. Maybe He knows I am not able to do much for my studies right now and neither for others.
I think best to keep things in perspective when it comes to school.... Education is a tool
To access so that hopefully so we can put ourselves to use in society doing something we enjoy .....don't let it overwhelm you and do not be afraid of failure we all go through it.
Focus on your strengths.

God meets us where we are ... you are right He knows where you are at and does not place a demand on us for things we cannot do.

His grace is sufficient but you have to draw from His grace ...He is the living water more than able to quench our thirst.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
...

I haven't had time to dig into your doctrine, but I have to agree it's funny how so many people through history know better than the earliest church fathers immediately following, and taught by, the Apostles.

For example, once saved always saved comes from Gnostic beliefs, which were firmly resisted by the church in the beginning. Those beliefs finally gained a foothold in the church with the reformation. And now look at how the leaven of that teaching has worked it's way almost through the whole batch of dough until we have this disobedient, godless church who thinks they're going to be welcomed in the kingdom despite their godless, disobedient, lawless lives. But Jesus did say 'Many will say to me in that day...'

OSAS comes from Gnostic beliefs ....this pretty funny.....do you have evidence to support this?
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
...

I haven't had time to dig into your doctrine, but I have to agree it's funny how so many people through history know better than the earliest church fathers immediately following, and taught by, the Apostles.

For example, once saved always saved comes from Gnostic beliefs, which were firmly resisted by the church in the beginning. Those beliefs finally gained a foothold in the church with the reformation. And now look at how the leaven of that teaching has worked it's way almost through the whole batch of dough until we have this disobedient, godless church who thinks they're going to be welcomed in the kingdom despite their godless, disobedient, lawless lives. But Jesus did say 'Many will say to me in that day...'
The early church fathers were not as unanimous in their doctrine as many Roman Catholics try to make it sound. They were very divided in doctrine, just as we are today and just like Paul had to correct the Corinthians and others for the many errors they made.

I do respect the early Church fathers, but they are also to be taken with a grain of salt, if you took time to read them I believe you would quickly find something you disagree with.

Also most importantly: The Roman Catholic church does not go by what the Church fathers taught, at all. There is not a single word about asking for departed saints to pray for you, asking Mary to pray for you, statues, holy water or any of that in the writings of the Ante-Nicene fathers.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The early church fathers were not as unanimous in their doctrine as many Roman Catholics try to make it sound. They were very divided in doctrine, just as we are today and just like Paul had to correct the Corinthians and others for the many errors they made.

I do respect the early Church fathers, but they are also to be taken with a grain of salt, if you took time to read them I believe you would quickly find something you disagree with.

Also most importantly: The Roman Catholic church does not go by what the Church fathers taught, at all. There is not a single word about asking for departed saints to pray for you, asking Mary to pray for you, statues, holy water or any of that in the writings of the Ante-Nicene fathers.
I would agree.
Early church fathers do you mean Iraneaus, Tertullian etc.,
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Yes I mean those guys.

I would also like to say that many of the writings were burned by the Roman Catholics, so the opposing views were extinguished.
Interesting ... writings of the early church fathers were burned...or later writings?
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
460
247
43
Interesting ... writings of the early church fathers were burned...or later writings?
Ever since the 300s it was common practice, before that not so much because the Christians were still persecuted before Constantine came into power.

I personally believe that was one of the biggest blows Christianity has ever taken, when they started to mix paganism and Christianity and crafted the "Holy" Roman Empire and went to conquer and convert people by force, causing millions of half-hearted fake Christians to pop up.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Ever since the 300s it was common practice, before that not so much because the Christians were still persecuted before Constantine came into power.

I personally believe that was one of the biggest blows Christianity has ever taken, when they started to mix paganism and Christianity and crafted the "Holy" Roman Empire and went to conquer and convert people by force, causing millions of half-hearted fake Christians to pop up.
Satan. ...father of lies and master deceiver!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Amen or as hebrews 6 says, some will bear thorns and stuff, and near to being cursed, in the end the weeds will be burned.

a child can not fall away, they can become prodigal children, but falling away is impossible, they would have to be stronger than the God who, said he will NEVER let us Go
100% agree.....to say we can lose it, walk away and lose faith to the point of losing salvation FLAT equates Jesus, Paul and the word of God to liars and lies.....We are KEPT by the POWER of GOD through the FAITH HE GIFTS IRREVOCABLY in measure, the SAME FAITH he begins, finishes and COMPLETES IN US....JESUS LOSES NOTHING....and to SAY HE BEGINS FAITH IN US and then WE HAVE TO KEEP IT TO REMAIN SAVED is as satanic as it comes and flat make the bible contradict itself.....it is sickening
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal: the Lord knows those who are His and everyone who names the name of the Lord must abstain from unrighteousness.

Now in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay - and some to honor and some to dishonor. Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things he will be a vessel for honor, made holy, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.

We are radically changed. We are made new and have a new Way of life! Praise the Lord.
yep.....nice twist...you left off the rest and how some VESSELS IN THE HOUSE ARE NOT AS HONORABLE AS OTHERS.....very deceptive of you......
 

Butterflyyy

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2019
1,613
1,318
113
DECREE ON REFORMATION



SECOND DECREE



CHAPTER I.



It is meet that prelates reside in their own churches; if they act otherwise, the penalties of the ancient law are renewed against them, and fresh penalties decreed.



The same sacred and holy Synod,-the same legates of the Apostolic See presiding,-wishing to apply itself to restore ecclesiastical discipline, which is exceedingly relaxed, and to amend the depraved manners of the clergy and Christian people, has thought it fit to begin with those who preside over the greater churches; for the integrity of those who govern, is the safety of the governed. Trusting, therefore, that by the mercy of our Lord and God, and the provident vigilance of His own vicar on earth, it will surely for the future happen, that those who are most worthy,-and whose previous life, in every stage thereof, from their infancy to their riper years, having been laudably passed in the exercises of ecclesiastical discipline, bears testimony in their favour,-will be assumed unto the government of churches, in accordance with the venerable ordinances of the Fathers, for that it is a burthen whose weight would be formidable even unto angels: (the Synod) admonishes all those who, under whatsoever name and title, are set over any patriarchal, primatial, metropolitan, and cathedral churches, and hereby accounts all such admonished, that, taking heed to themselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed them to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood, they be vigilant, as the Apostle enjoins, that they labour in all things, and fulfil their ministry: but let them know, that fulfil it they cannot, if like hirelings they abandon the flocks committed to them, and apply not themselves to the keeping of their own sheep, whose blood will be required at their hands, by the Supreme Judge; seeing that it is most certain that, if the wolf have devoured the sheep, the shepherd's excuse will not be admitted, that he knew not thereof.



And yet, for as much as some are to be found at this time, who-as is grievously to be lamented-forgetful even of their own salvation, and preferring earthly things to heavenly, and things human before divine, wander about in various courts, or, their fold forsaken, and the care of the sheep committed to them neglected, keep themselves occupied with the solicitudes of temporal affairs; it hath seemed good to the sacred and holy Synod to renew, as by virtue of the present decree It doth renew, the ancient canons promulgated against non-residents, which (canons) have, through the disorders of the times and of men, well nigh fallen into desuetude; and furthermore, in order to the more fixed residence of the same, and for the reforming of manners in the church, it hath seemed good to appoint and ordain in the manner following:-If any one, by whatsoever dignity, degree, and pre-eminence distinguished, shall, by remaining six months together out of his own diocese, all lawful impediment, or just and reasonable causes ceasing, be absent from a patriarchal, primatial, metropolitan, or cathedral church, under what title soever, cause, name, or right committed to him, he shall ipso jure incur the penalty of the forfeiture of a fourth part of one year's fruits, to be applied, by an ecclesiastical superior, to the fabric of the church and to the poor of the place. And if he continue absent in this way during six other months, he shall thereupon forfeit another fourth part of the fruits to be applied in like manner. But if the contumacy proceed yet further, the metropolitan shall, for the subjecting him to a severer censure of the sacred canons, be obliged to denounce his absent suffragan bishops, and the oldest resident suffragan bishop to denounce his absent metropolitan, to the Roman pontiff, either by letter or by messenger, within the space of three months, under the penalty, to be ipso facto incurred, of being interdicted from entering into the church; that he, by the authority of his own supreme See, may proceed against the said non-resident prelates, according as the greater or less contumacy of each may require, and provide the said churches with more useful pastors, as he shall know in the Lord to be salutary and expedient.



CHAPTER II.



It is not lawful for any one who holds a benefice requiring personal residence to absent himself, save for a just cause to be approved of by the bishop, who even then shall, for the cure of souls, substitute a vicar in his stead, withdrawing a portion of the fruits.



Those inferior to bishops, who hold by title, or in commendam, any ecclesiastical benefices requiring personal residence whether by law or custom, shall be compelled, by their Ordinaries, to reside, by suitable legal remedies; as to them shall seem expedient for the good government of the churches and the advancement of the service of God, taking into account the character of the places and persons; and to no one shall any perpetual privileges, or indults, in favour of non-residence, or of receiving the fruits during absence, be of avail: temporary indulgences and dispensations, however, granted solely for true and reasonable causes, and which are to be legitimately proved before the Ordinary, shall remain in force; in which cases nevertheless, it shall be the office of bishops, as delegated in this matter by the Apostolic See, to provide that, by deputing competent vicars, and by assigning them a suitable portion of the fruits, the cure of souls be nowise neglected; no privilege or exemption whatever being of avail to any in this regard.



CHAPTER III.



The excesses of Secular clerics and of Regulars who live out of their monasteries, shall be corrected by the Ordinary of the place.



The prelates of the churches shall apply themselves prudently and diligently to correct the excesses of their subjects; and no Secular cleric, under pretext of a personal privilege, or any Regular, living out of his monastery, shall, under pretext of a privilege of his order, be accounted, if he transgress, exempt from being visited, punished, and corrected, in accordance with the ordinances of the canons, by the Ordinary of the place, as being delegated hereunto by the Apostolic See.



CHAPTER IV.



Bishops and other greater prelates shall visit any churches whatsoever, as often as there shall be need; everything which might hinder this decree being abrogated.



The Chapters of cathedral, and of other greater, churches, and the members thereof, shall not be able,-by any exemptions, customs, judgments, oaths, concordates, which only bind the authors thereof and not also their successors,-to screen themselves from being capable of being, in accordance with the ordinances of the canons, visited, corrected, and amended, as often as shall be needful, even with apostolical authority, by their own bishops, and other greater prelates, by themselves alone, or with those whom they shall see fit to have accompany them.



CHAPTER V.



Bishops shall neither exercise any pontifical function, nor ordain, in another diocese.



It shall not be lawful for any bishop, under the plea of any privilege soever, to exercise pontifical functions in the diocese of another, save by the express permission of the Ordinary of the place, and in regard to those persons only who are subject to that same Ordinary: if the contrary shall have been done, the bishop shall be ipso facto suspended from the exercise of episcopal functions, and those so ordained (be similarly suspended) from the exercise of their orders.



INDICTION OF THE NEXT SESSION



Doth it please you, that the next ensuing Session be celebrated on Thursday, the fifth day after the first Sunday of the approaching Lent, which (Thursday) will be the third day of the month of March?



They answered: It pleaseth us.

ON THE SACRAMENTS

FIRST DECREE & CANONS



Celebrated on the third day of the month of March, MDXLVII.



Proem.



For the completion of the salutary doctrine on Justification, which was promulgated with the unanimous consent of the Fathers in the last preceding Session, it hath seemed suitable to treat of the most holy Sacraments of the Church, through which all true justice either begins, or being begun is increased, or being lost is repaired. With this view, in order to destroy the errors and to extirpate the heresies, which have appeared in these our days on the subject of the said most holy sacraments,-as well those which have been revived from the heresies condemned of old by our Fathers, as also those newly invented, and which are exceedingly prejudicial to the purity of the Catholic Church, and to the salvation of souls,-the sacred and holy, oecumenical and general Synod of Trent, lawfully assembled in the Holy Ghost, the same legates of the Apostolic See presiding therein, adhering to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures, to the apostolic traditions, and to the consent of other councils and of the Fathers, has thought fit that these present canons be established and decreed; intending, the divine Spirit aiding, to publish later the remaining canons which are wanting for the completion of the work which It has begun.
Jaden please can you answer my last two questions on here?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
John Baptist talked about those not bearing fruit being cast into the fire,because they did not bring forth fruit meet for repentance. I think perhaps that was referring to mere outward show without inward reality. Going through the motions, but no actual change of heart.
John was also identified with the law and prophets and until Jesus ratified the new covenant ALL were still subject to it in some form or fashion.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I think it would be much better if yougive the scriptures which show why you think like you do and then repliesmay be given in the same way so that these matters can be reasoned out on the basis of scripture....
He gives scripture.....out of context, skewed, twisted and so far out of whack that it cannot even be sold as a pretzel if baked and salted!