Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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A blue cat lover .... that's is different... I guess they do exist... do you want one @blue_ladybug?
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Yes, that is what I believe.
That's how it is:
Hebrews 6: 4-6 NAS
in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Surely, you're saying to yourself right now, "but that's not talking about saved people."
For one thing, I don't know how you 'renew' a person to repentance who has never repented before, or how an unsaved person can 'again' crucify to themselves the Son of God who has never crucified to themselves the Son of God before. But anyway, if this is talking about those who have never believed not being able to be renewed, how much more so that would be true for those who have repented before but have fallen away. Think about it.
That's how it is:
Hebrews 6: 4-6 NAS
in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Surely, you're saying to yourself right now, "but that's not talking about saved people."
For one thing, I don't know how you 'renew' a person to repentance who has never repented before, or how an unsaved person can 'again' crucify to themselves the Son of God who has never crucified to themselves the Son of God before. But anyway, if this is talking about those who have never believed not being able to be renewed, how much more so that would be true for those who have repented before but have fallen away. Think about it.
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I think the parable is actually talking about Israel and the Father. In which case it's aim is not to try and distinguish between saved and unsaved people. But it probably is talking about unsaved people--the prostitutes and tax collectors who foolishly forsook the goodness of God they were entitled to as children of Abraham, but who came back to their senses and returned home with much fanfare at the teaching of Jesus while the self righteous Pharisees looked on with disgust and contempt.
But anyway, the problem for the Prodigal son in the church is if he never comes back. The point being, he has to come back to have his Father's riches and the inheritance. You can't have the riches of the Father and the inheritance of the Father if you leave the Father. The believer has to continue in the household to have and enjoy his Father's riches and receive the inheritance. Perhaps the once saved always saved argument should be changed to 'a true believer will always come back'. Instead of 'a true believer will never leave'. Once saved always saved can't defend not being able to lose your salvation by saying 'true believers never leave' (1 John 2:19), and, 'the Prodigal Son proves you can't lose your salvation' (Luke 15:11-31) at the same time. That's contradictory.
But anyway, the problem for the Prodigal son in the church is if he never comes back. The point being, he has to come back to have his Father's riches and the inheritance. You can't have the riches of the Father and the inheritance of the Father if you leave the Father. The believer has to continue in the household to have and enjoy his Father's riches and receive the inheritance. Perhaps the once saved always saved argument should be changed to 'a true believer will always come back'. Instead of 'a true believer will never leave'. Once saved always saved can't defend not being able to lose your salvation by saying 'true believers never leave' (1 John 2:19), and, 'the Prodigal Son proves you can't lose your salvation' (Luke 15:11-31) at the same time. That's contradictory.
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Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
I absolutely do see a difference.
There's a big difference between sinning because you're weak or ignorant or foolish or scared or just plain stupid, and sinning because you don't care about and are trampling on the forgiveness of sin you have received in Christ. The latter sin, if you remain in it and refuse to come back in the time God gives you to come back, will condemn you to hell.
I absolutely do see a difference.
There's a big difference between sinning because you're weak or ignorant or foolish or scared or just plain stupid, and sinning because you don't care about and are trampling on the forgiveness of sin you have received in Christ. The latter sin, if you remain in it and refuse to come back in the time God gives you to come back, will condemn you to hell.
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When I was about 3 or 4 years old, my mom and me and my brother saw the sun rays shining down out of the clouds and my mom told me that was God's love shining down (or something like that). To this day that's what they are to me. When I got saved I realized God's love is like that.
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OSAS, is exactly what PAUL TAUGHT and JESUS. Your weird idea of Interpretation, is the Problem Child.
John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
2 Corinthians 3:5 (HCSB)
5 ⌊It is⌋ not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God.
Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.
Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.
Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit. [You cannot unseal something that GOD HIMSELF has SEALED.]
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Now If you cannot see OSAS in those verses, IN MY OPINION;
You are Blind as well as being thoroughly Brainwashed, by a False Prophet.
And you are teaching False Doctrine, and possibly a False Gospel.
AND THERE ARE OTHER VERSES THAT ALSO SUPPORT OSAS, but I figure if you WILL NOT READ THOSE That I Posted, it would be a waste of my time you look up more.
You absolutely NEED TO BE BORN AGAIN, no one gets to Heaven without it.
That happens only when you Mournfully CONFESS your SINS, and RECEIVE JESUS as your PERSONAL LORD and MASTER.
Only then will your Human Spirit be Birthed into ETERNAL LIFE, by the Holy Spirit HIMSELF.
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