Deny yourself and take up your Cross

[Flint321]

Mii, has got a good point, we are to preach the full council of God and the church is to be established in the full council of God, its that simple. The problem of wicked pastors is everywhere, false doctrine is everywhere, so i commend TLC209 to seek to bring repentance and faith into his church, if indeed they are not preaching and upholding the full council of the Almighty.

But that doesn't mean sell your houses or your gonna be damned! OR salvation is not by faith, as TLC209 actually is declaring if you go read his comments.......

TLC209 you need to get the gospel right! and Fear God!

Here is another quote from TLC209 showing forth his ignorance:

TLC209 says:

"In your response you quoted the passage: Acts 26:18 I am sending you to them to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

How do you suppose someone turns from darkness to light? By merely believing and having faith? No sir. It means we turn from sin. Means we walk in obedience and refuse sin. Means this has to do with our conduct.

Notice how he contradicts that very passage of scripture hes talking about, it says in the word of God right there its by faith!

The truth is TLC209 is confused about repentance and faith and is putting them against each other, hopefully you see this TLC209 and realize you've got more homework to do

I say this out of concern and love, as i don't think your a heretic, but your speaking like one at times and need to do more study

 

[Mii]

I think he has simply seen his fair share of people that are expecting the Lord to miraculously deliver them from everything, and act like infants that can only consume milk and aren't even aware of their own incontinence (sin).

To be implicit, being in the very act of something and praying to the Lord to deliver you and to make that thing unpleasurable. That's not how it works, we war against our flesh and base impulses. It does get frustrating to see people time and time again fall in certain areas and expect to put in no discernible effort and achieve results. Joseph ran...that cost him something.

However, I would qualify that and say that much like trees in winter, growth cannot be measured easily.

So, I would guess that's where some of the statements are coming from. I think he is taking faith as an "of course" possibly but that we WILL have works that accompany this if it is genuine. The works are a byproduct....a given. Possibly, I would appreciate a bit more clarification, because I don't want to jump to conclusions and it is late.

 

[KhedetOrthos]

You do understand that obeying Yeshua (Jesus) is

I’m inherently suspicious and skeptical of English speakers who feel the need to try and autocorrect the English word Jesus to its spelling in a different language. There generally is a good bit of Judaizing underlying that substitution.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

What does it really mean to deny oneself and take up their Cross? For me, that means I have to give up the life I have known for the last 20 years and submit fully to His will. Being Human, I’m stubborn in ways, but I know that it must be done or I am done. What does it mean for you? I welcome all replies. God bless you All!

Romans chapter 7 is a description of this.
Take up the battle against the flesh making yourself subject to the spirit.

The cross is where the flesh dies.

 

[BillG]

Not exactly Brother Bill (they both occur simultenously in salvation, yes they occur at the same time), i will give you some more clarification:

To be saved a person must repent, they must turn away from sin, they must forsake their sins and be reconciled to God through Jesus Christ.

Here is some examples from the bible itself:
Isaiah 55:7 let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

As you can see when a person repents^, they also believe^, can you see that in the above verse?

Notice in the above verse, the sinners turns and forsakes his sin and at the same time embraces God's pardon in faith, he receives God's salvation, as a gift he can't deserve, he is forgiven

What does this mean? it means that Repentance and Faith go together always in the bible, they are to be seen in organic conjunction/union, they are joined together.

Here is some more verses about repentance unto life (from Jesus himself):
Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

So Repentance implies Faith and Faith implies Repentance in the bible, so when someone believes on Jesus for salvation, they have also repented, they go together.

So when a person believes, they also are repenting and if a person is repenting, they also are believing freely for salvation.

This is why the bible teaches both, because they are linked together.

So to answer your original question: They are turned away from sin the moment they believe, as one implies the other and vice versa.

In conversion, repentance and faith happen at the exact same time.

If your seeing this right, then you won't view them as a contradiction, repentance and faith are not contradictory things, AKA one does not destroy or nullify the other and vice versa, neither are they against each other.

Thanks for responding.

I think we are on the same page.

The way I look at it is

Jesus said he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin.

The sin being unbelief in him.
When we repent of that then we are arepenting also of the sins we have comitted.
Then we have the Holy Spirit in us so that we decrease and Jesus increases in us.
As that happens we sin less and manifest fruit and works.

 

[EleventhHour]

The truth is TLC209 is confused about repentance and faith and is putting them against each other, hopefully you see this TLC209 and realize you've got more homework to do

as i don't think your a heretic,

But we are reprobates it seems for believing the true Gospel ......which is clearly given in scripture as a gift apart from works ... received by grace through faith.

 

[TLC209]

I haven't heard many draw that parallel, I would be interested if you could link that particular sermon. If not, no worries. It's good to know people understand the dichotomy as well as powerful language to describe it

 

[TLC209]

I think he has simply seen his fair share of people that are expecting the Lord to miraculously deliver them from everything, and act like infants that can only consume milk and aren't even aware of their own incontinence (sin).

To be implicit, being in the very act of something and praying to the Lord to deliver you and to make that thing unpleasurable. That's not how it works, we war against our flesh and base impulses. It does get frustrating to see people time and time again fall in certain areas and expect to put in no discernible effort and achieve results. Joseph ran...that cost him something.

However, I would qualify that and say that much like trees in winter, growth cannot be measured easily.

So, I would guess that's where some of the statements are coming from. I think he is taking faith as an "of course" possibly but that we WILL have works that accompany this if it is genuine. The works are a byproduct....a given. Possibly, I would appreciate a bit more clarification, because I don't want to jump to conclusions and it is late.

What Ive been saying is all there. My words dont contradict scripture. Ive been speaking on the topic of denying yourself. Flint got on the topic of salvation. Because he took what I said about the reward given to those who give the least of His follows a cup of water, or the same reward given to the prophets to one who recwives the prophets. Paul spoke about the reward of finishing the good fight being the crown of life. That was His reward, Eternal life. So if that is a reward, and salvation is eternal life, then how am I preaching a different gospel? Im not! Im preaching something that conflicts with man made doctrines.

So before these people begin with the foolish claim, WORKS DO NOT SAVE! Only Jesus Christ saves. Through faith in Jesus Christ. Which is not MERE BELIEF. True faith has repentance
There are fruits of repentance in the same way there are fruits of Faith which James calls works. Jesus said greater works than these you shall do. Christians submit to Christ as the head and do the will of the Father. We are to deny ourselves and pick up our cross.. this is hard work. Its not easy. Being a Christian is not easy!

When I say things that conflict a persons indoctrination, which is always the same doctine "dispensational grace" "osas" "saved doctrine" when these doctrines are the basis of a persons beliefs they conflict with MEAT of the bible. I study daily and will continue to study until I go with the Lord. This is what I do. So thanks for the reminder. But I have not said anything in error.

 

[TLC209]

But we are reprobates it seems for believing the true Gospel ......which is clearly given in scripture as a gift apart from works ... received by grace through faith.

Yes you are a reprobate. Read the bible to see what it says about reprobates. Before you disagree with something you dont understand. You should repent and try to please God. Not merely by your words, which you imply you are redeemed, but by your heart. If you truly feel I am in error you should seek to save me from damnation not make me scum.. does that sound Godly? You dont have the love of Christ.

When I tell you all that you are reprobates, I expect you to do self examination. Why would someone say youre a reprobate when the suggestion that someone is a reprobate means they are not walking with GOD! Means they live their life by another gospel. They are not following the truth.

People who throw stones are not of Christ. If someone is in error you minister to them and try to correct them of their error. Anyone who turns someone back to God covers a multitude of sin. Its part of doing Gods work, for us to turn people back to God. Not to throw stones if you think someone is in error. We do this correcting process and ministering for a long period of time before you dust your feet, only after the person rejects turning from their error. At which point it would be better for sodom and gomorrah than for that person at the time of judgement.

 

[TLC209]

Thanks for responding.

I think we are on the same page.

The way I look at it is

Jesus said he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin.

The sin being unbelief in him.
When we repent of that then we are arepenting also of the sins we have comitted.
Then we have the Holy Spirit in us so that we decrease and Jesus increases in us.
As that happens we sin less and manifest fruit and works.

Bro unbelief is not the only sin. Because of your belief does not now absolve you of all other sin. Theres more passages to read than the three passages of the saved doctrine.

You believe you have the Holy Spirit? You can honestly say you have it living inside of YOU? You read what scripture says lives in His Saints and what is promised to His people. But is that true for YOU?

The Holy Spirit is a real Spirit. It has evidence, it has fruit and it has gifts. One is discernment. So why would someone who doesnt know you online call you a reprobate? Can reprobates have the Holy Spirit???

 

[EleventhHour]

Yes you are a reprobate. Read the bible to see what it says about reprobates. Before you disagree with something you dont understand. You should repent and try to please God. Not merely by your words, which you imply you are redeemed, but by your heart. If you truly feel I am in error you should seek to save me from damnation not make me scum.. does that sound Godly? You dont have the love of Christ.

When I tell you all that you are reprobates, I expect you to do self examination. Why would someone say youre a reprobate when the suggestion that someone is a reprobate means they are not walking with GOD! Means they live their life by another gospel. They are not following the truth.

People who throw stones are not of Christ. If someone is in error you minister to them and try to correct them of their error. Anyone who turns someone back to God covers a multitude of sin. Its part of doing Gods work, for us to turn people back to God. Not to throw stones if you think someone is in error. We do this correcting process and ministering for a long period of time before you dust your feet, only after the person rejects turning from their error. At which point it would be better for sodom and gomorrah than for that person at the time of judgement.

Many far smarter than me and far more knowledgeable in scripture have already tried from what I have read and you have paid them no heed ... .. you are the one in error as evidenced by this statement.......

The saved by grace doctrine is a doctrine I reject and denounce.

Again contrary to scripture.....

It means we turn from sin. Means we walk in obedience and refuse sin. Means this has to do with our conduct.

This demonstrates you have not understood the word "metanoia" which in no way means turn from sin and become sinless.

The Gospel of Christ Jesus is not "quid pro quo"... we do not give in order to get salvation........that is completely contrary to scripture.

 

[TLC209]

Thanks for responding.

I think we are on the same page.

The way I look at it is

Jesus said he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin.

The sin being unbelief in him.
When we repent of that then we are arepenting also of the sins we have comitted.
Then we have the Holy Spirit in us so that we decrease and Jesus increases in us.
As that happens we sin less and manifest fruit and works.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You see not only unbelievers will be cast in the lake of fire. Idolaters can be believers. Liars can be believers. Murderes can believers. Whoremongers Adulterers can be believers. Etc etc. Just because we believe does not absolve us from sin. We must live a Holy life and seek to please God. God is not a respecter of persons.

If only unbelief was who was being cast into hell, He wouldnt mention all the other sins. Because not all who believe walk with God. They do not walk in faith. The righteous shall live by faith the bible says. Not only by mere belief but by our actions. Thats why we must carry our cross daily.

 

[TLC209]

Many far smarter than me and far more knowledgeable in scripture have already tried from what I have read and you have paid them no heed ... .. you are the one in error as evidenced by this statement.......



Again contrary to scripture.....



This demonstrates you have not understood the word "metanoia" which in no way means turn from sin and become sinless.

The Gospel of Christ Jesus is not "quid pro quo"... we do not give in order to get salvation........that is completely contrary to scripture.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Giving our lives to God, which are HIS. Our lives were bought with a price. Thats not quid pro quo. Not sure where you get your assumption that this contradicts scripture? Once again it contradicts your doctrine, NOT SCRIPTURE.

You said i made a statement that contradicts scripture? Being against "saved by grace" DOCTRINE is being against the DOCTRINE. Not the scripture. The scripture is accurate. The DOCTRINE IS NOT. Hence why you feel the way you do. Because youve been spoon fed that stuff probably all your life. This is the problem with these false pastors. Youre my point I was making to everyone.

Your error is not your fault! Its the leaders who are responsible. They are false leaders leading people into error. You even said it yourself that some people smarter than you? I think you meant people who study their bible more than you. No one is truly smart. True wisdom is Jesus Christ. Without that people are foolish. No matter how smart they may seem.

 

[Mii]

I’m inherently suspicious and skeptical of English speakers who feel the need to try and autocorrect the English word Jesus to its spelling in a different language. There generally is a good bit of Judaizing underlying that substitution.

That is your prerogative I suppose. My reason is I haven't ever heard anyone curse with Yeshua and and I like the lilt and way it sounds, and resonate with the Jewish people and their plight. It was just spoken to me one night, I didn't even know that was another name for Jesus.

I would challenge you in your generalizations, because oftentimes people factor out exceptions when factoring in generalizations. I could easily say "the WORD" and have at times. There are many times I say Jesus instead. I can't explain it personally, except that Jesus Christ is a byword among many and my usage of alternating representations such as "the Lamb" are my combat of that.



Makes me a little sad.

 

[Mii]

Thanks I'll check it out when I get back from work.

 

[Flint321]

Thanks for responding.

I think we are on the same page.

The way I look at it is

Jesus said he must go back to the Father so that the Holy Spirit must come to convict the world of its sin.

The sin being unbelief in him.
When we repent of that then we are arepenting also of the sins we have comitted.
Then we have the Holy Spirit in us so that we decrease and Jesus increases in us.
As that happens we sin less and manifest fruit and works.

That's right and i think you have a good grasp on this Brother Bill, that repentance goes along with believing and believing with repentance, so a sinner does therefore turn from actual sins (as you said) and puts there trust in the blessed Lord Jesus Christ for the full pardon and redemption of there soul! This is GLORIOUS NEWS indeed, the salvation of God!

After this initial salvation or what we call conversion, there is a on-going sanctification process that is being worked out, which means Christians aint perfect yet, they continue to grow and be molded, they continue to repent and they continue to hold to Christ alone.

 

[Lightskin]

Yes you are a reprobate.

Jesus was called a lot worse; that puts Eleven and everyone else who disagrees with you in the Best of Company.

 

[TLC209]

Mii, has got a good point, we are to preach the full council of God and the church is to be established in the full council of God, its that simple. The problem of wicked pastors is everywhere, false doctrine is everywhere, so i commend TLC209 to seek to bring repentance and faith into his church, if indeed they are not preaching and upholding the full council of the Almighty.

But that doesn't mean sell your houses or your gonna be damned! OR salvation is not by faith, as TLC209 actually is declaring if you go read his comments.......

TLC209 you need to get the gospel right! and Fear God!

Here is another quote from TLC209 showing forth his ignorance:

TLC209 says:

"In your response you quoted the passage: Acts 26:18 I am sending you to them to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

How do you suppose someone turns from darkness to light? By merely believing and having faith? No sir. It means we turn from sin. Means we walk in obedience and refuse sin. Means this has to do with our conduct.

Notice how he contradicts that very passage of scripture hes talking about, it says in the word of God right there its by faith!

The truth is TLC209 is confused about repentance and faith and is putting them against each other, hopefully you see this TLC209 and realize you've got more homework to do

I say this out of concern and love, as i don't think your a heretic, but your speaking like one at times and need to do more study

Derek Prince gave a wonderful message of repentance. Id like to share it with you. If you can spare a few minutes of your time. And this goes for anyone else who would like to see this amazing reflection.

 

[TLC209]

Jesus was called a lot worse; that puts Eleven and everyone else who disagrees with you in the Best of Company.

Jesus is Lord. He is no reprobate. Not sure why you chose to include him in your statement.

As for me I AM NO ONE. Im just a man and a sinner. Born again of the Holy Spirit. A follower of Christ. You dont have to agree with me. Im not speaking my own opinions Im giving scripture to back up what I say. So its not me who you disagree with.

 

[Flint321]

Derek Prince gave a wonderful message of repentance. Id like to share it with you. If you can spare a few minutes of your time. And this goes for anyone else who would like to see this amazing reflection.

Hey Brother TLC209, i watched the video, its good........... but it also has flaws in it, these flaws are important, even if the video is great and Godly.

I will explain my case, so listen closely and i hope this will further your understanding of repentance and faith.

Like i said the video is decent, its Godly......... yet it has errors in it.

Error #1: is at 15 seconds in the video where he says "repentance is not an emotion" is that true? No, because repentance has an emotional element to it, according to scripture.

2nd Corinthians 7:10 For godly grief/sorrow produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

Mark 1:5 The whole Judean countryside and all the people of Jerusalem went out to him. Confessing their sins.

So you see here, there is emotions are involved!

Also do you think when the people are repenting of their sin in Mark 1:5 that their hearts weren't moved with Godly Sorrow? No!!! Because this is what repentance is, the heart is pierced by God and they turn from Sin.

HUMAN emotions/affections are involved in repentance, 1st FIRST ERROR of the video.

Now....... is the will involved in repentance?.... Btw Derek Prince makes a great point here and the answer is correct!
The WILL IS ALWAYS INVOLVED IN REPENTANCE, just being clear on this great point.

Check out the next verse in 2nd Corinthians:
2nd Corinthians 7:11 For see what earnestness this godly grief has produced in you, but also what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment! At every point you have proved yourselves innocent in the matter.

The Corinthians Hearts were moved, which means that their minds were moved, their affections/emotions were moved AND last but not least.... their wills were moved, they repented.

So Repentance is when someone does a 180 and there whole being is involved (mind, affections and will).

2nd ERROR of the VIDEO (this one is way more important):

He says somewhere in the middle of the video, that repentance precedes faith, this is not true, they occur at the same time in biblical thought.

Mark 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
He uses this verse to justify some type of order, yet the verse says Repent and Believe, you could just aswell switch it around and say Believe and Repent.

There is no order! they occur at the same time!

In John 3:16.......... it doesn't say repent does it? you know why?....... because believing and repentance go together in the bible, that verse above is not talking about AN ORDER! (Mark 1:15), it's putting them on the exact same level.

For example you could read John 3:16 like this and it would be true:
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes/repents to God through him should not perish but have eternal life."

When someone makes an order out of repentance and faith, they usually are distorting the gospel, because we turn from our sin as we are simultaneously trusting in Christ Alone, a person never repents first and then trusts in Christ, they happen together.

There is no contradiction, lets not turn them into one, anyway hope that helps.

Heres a good sermon you might be interested in: