Not By Works

[Hevosmies]

By definition, faith 'alone' is 'knowledge alone'. That will not save you. But faith that is not alone but has the footsteps commensurate with believing in what that faith has shown you, THAT is the 'faith' that saves.

Can't be late for work....gotta run....

What saves you is believing and trusting in the gospel you now know to be true through God's gift of faith. See the difference?

I see the difference between the real Gospel and your IKEA doityourself gospel, YUP i do. HOW is it God's gift of faith if the BELIEVING comes from the self? Amazing theology right there broski. WHO is struggling to believe? Name me the man. I'll be battling away till I cant breathe you can bet on that, I wont take a backward step, WE'RE MADE OF FIGHTING STUFF, GRIT and thats how God designed us.

I think I can DIAGNOSE your theology right now, here is my diagnosis as a PROFESSOR of the faith, a true SCHOLAR of the centuries, here is my diagnosis: You REALLY gotta strive hard to keep believing IF you are counting on your OWN EFFORTS to stay believing!
Thats your problem right thurrrr!

The biblical method is: YOU ARE BEING KEPT by GOD through FAITH:

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

You said FAITH is a gift of God, which is TRUE (Ephesians 2:8 says that) but did you know that Jesus is not only the AUTHOR of it, but the FINISHER of it too. GOD WILL FINISH what He started! NO HALF-WAY JOBS!

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Who is able to prevent us from FALLING? GOD!

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

IN OTHER WORDS: You are suffering from another case of "God absentos picterutus", thats sophisticated ancient latin, in english it means "GOD ABSENT FROM THE PICTURE" as USUAL you left God out the picture completely where GOD is unemployed in heaven HOPING things will turn out for the best. COULD IT BE you are making GOD to be a LOSER who cant get anything done?

 

[PennEd]

He didn't do that for Ananias and Sapphira.

I agree that sometimes the Lord will give over to satan to destroy the flesh of sinning believers.

But I think it's also possible that Ananias and Sapphira were NOT believers. We are not told they are believers, nor are they referred to as brethren. They may have gotten caught up in the excitement and IDEA of a Christian community, without a true conversion.

But it's also possible they were saved but will be one of the least in the Kingdom.

 

[EleventhHour]

JESUS WAS and exactly WHY salvation IS SECURE and ETERNALLY given...HIS righteousness is IMPUTED to OUR ACCOUNT by FAITH....and this is WHAT you cannot grasp!

Bumping up ... Jesus is the reason we are secure... Amen...... (not perseverance).

 

[Hevosmies]

Bumping up ... Jesus is the reason we are secure... Amen...... (not perseverance).

Plot twist: Jesus will MAKE US persevere.

 

[EleventhHour]

I agree that sometimes the Lord will give over to satan to destroy the flesh of sinning believers.

But I think it's also possible that Ananias and Sapphira were NOT believers. We are not told they are believers, nor are they referred to as brethren. They may have gotten caught up in the excitement and IDEA of a Christian community, without a true conversion.

But it's also possible they were saved but will be one of the least in the Kingdom.

Thank you PennEd... yes we have to come to terms that there are some who will be least, least, least in the Kingdom.

That is really my main point!

 

[Hevosmies]

Thank you PennEd... yes we have to come to terms that there are some who will be least, least, least in the Kingdom.

That is really my main point!

I'd be GLAD to be the least in the kingdom. SIGN ME UP! Even the least in the kingdom is a TRUE WINNER

 

[EleventhHour]

Plot twist: Jesus will MAKE US persevere.

Okay friend... I know you believe this... I see a separation in scripture in many places between salvation and discipleship.

I see two natures.. and many walk in the flesh... yes sometimes Jesus intervenes and sometimes He does not .... only He knows why He does what He does.

 

[Judges1318]

lolz ok. so faith is the gift of God but the believing part is your part then you end with "that is what it means for the righteousness you receive from God comes to you through faith."

THROUGH Faith.

 

[EleventhHour]

I'd be GLAD to be the least in the kingdom. SIGN ME UP! Even the least in the kingdom is a TRUE WINNER

Hence my name .. those who started working late.....but the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

 

[Judges1318]

You're most likely taking him out of context. If you're going to accuse, you should provide the persons actual statement, in context, instead of the ambiguous remarks above.

He equated believing with works. The point being, if YOU have to believe then YOU are doing something, which is works. Seriously.

 

[OneOfHis]

He equated believing with works. The point being, if YOU have to believe then YOU are doing something, which is works. Seriously.

Can you show the video in question?
Or entire presentation of whatever is in question.


I have only heard him say the exact opposite of what you seem to be claiming...

 

[Judges1318]

Can you show the video in question?
Or entire presentation of whatever is in question.


I have only heard him say the exact opposite of what you seem to be claiming...

I < might > be able to find the video again. I'll poke around.

And probably what you heard him talk positively about is 'Calvinistic' believing. The kind that just kind of comes to you.....and there's nothing you can do about it. You trust Christ because you've been picked to trust Christ and be saved. You yourself don't even do the believing. It just comes to you. (If 'you' did it, that would be 'works').

Biblically, 'faith' is what just comes to you. Faith by pure definition is the knowing that what God testifies to the world through the Holy Spirit is true. Somewhere along the path of life God proves to every sinner, even the worst of sinners that the gospel of Jesus really is true. That is not 'getting saved'. That is simply now having the knowledge that the gospel really is true. From there, most do not retain the truth they were made to see, choosing not to place their trust in it, and they cast it aside. Only a few choose to believe what God has proven to them is true. And there are those who think just knowing the gospel is true has saved them. Knowledge alone never saved anyone, and never will. Only trusting in what you know about the gospel through God's gracious gift of 'knowing' saves.

How does one know they are trusting in the gospel they know is true, and not just aware that the gospel is true? By how you live.

 

[Judges1318]

He equated believing with works. The point being, if YOU have to believe then YOU are doing something, which is works. Seriously.

Just to be clear.
Works is not defined as 'you did something'.
'Works' is defined as you doing the righteous works of the law with the express intent of trying to be declared righteous by God for doing those works.
Last time I checked, trusting in Christ for justification is not included in the works of the law that can not justify. In fact, Paul said trusting in Christ is diametrically opposed to the law in regard to justification.

 

[Judges1318]

I'd be GLAD to be the least in the kingdom. SIGN ME UP! Even the least in the kingdom is a TRUE WINNER

Sorry, but I think John the Baptist has that position secured.

 

[Hevosmies]

Sorry, but I think John the Baptist has that position secured.

I tried my best, I was half-way there! Im a BAPTIST but not a JOHN!

 

[Judges1318]

Plot twist: Jesus will MAKE US persevere.

...if you depend on his power to persevere. Because it surely won't happen in your own power. It's all about trusting. He will do what you trust Him to do.

 

[Hevosmies]

...if you depend on his power to persevere. Because it surely won't happen in your own power. It's all about trusting. He will do what you trust Him to do.

If I used to believe the Gospel, then I became an odinist or a muslim or something like that. Meaning I stopped believing the Gospel, CAN I COME BACK to believing the Gospel? Or is it ALL OVER for me now?

 

[NayborBear]

The apostles themselves called us to continue in faith. Acts 14:22. I do not disagree with you that we are called to continue in the faith. I do disagree with you on some things, one being the statement that Christ stops mediating for you if you don't keep believing. I believe we are kept by the mediation of Christ, not that we keep the mediation of Christ by continued belief.

I was a prodigal son for years. Jesus did not stop interceding for me. The fact that Jesus continued to intercede for me is the reason that my fall was not permanent.

I agree with ya man! Fact is? I quite resembled your last sentence.

That which "some" people refer to as "works in trying to gain, or maintain one's salvation", is because they are not spiritually mature enough to "see" this, or fancy themselves "exempt" from:
1 Peter 2
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

They do not "see" themselves "here!":
Matthew 5
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

These "some", also fancy themselves as "men of God." As they have been "taught" that "love" will cover ALL the "spiritual sacrificing/s", in the "payments" to the "uttermost farthing." And in so doing, deceive themselves and others.
When, in all actuality, they are "children!":
1 Corinthians 14
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit IN MALICE be ye children, but in understanding be men.

1 Corinthians 14
32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

But, of course, with the "blinders of contextual literalism?", or "chronologicalism?"
Understanding, falls prey to the traditions and precepts of (cough, cough) "men(?)"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

...if you depend on his power to persevere. Because it surely won't happen in your own power. It's all about trusting. He will do what you trust Him to do.

This shows a total lack of faith in God, it is up to us not God. This is sad

 

[Judges1318]

If I used to believe the Gospel, then I became an odinist or a muslim or something like that. Meaning I stopped believing the Gospel, CAN I COME BACK to believing the Gospel? Or is it ALL OVER for me now?

The Galatians turned back to Judaism, but Paul was trying to bring them back. Yet, Hebrews says you can't be renewed if you fall away. That tells me there is the point of no return for each of us if we should fall away from trusting in Christ for justification. It must vary depending on where we're at with the Lord in our faith when we left, and for what reason, and if we respond to God's attempts to bring us back. I'm on the side of God being incredibly gracious and patient with the believer toying with unbelief.