The genealogies of Christ: “the son of David"
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
the 4 kings missing from Matthew's list:
Ahaziah
Joash
Amaziah
Jehoiakim
In the twelfth year of Joram son of Ahab king of Israel, Ahaziah son of Jehoram king of Judah began to reign. Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem one year. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of Omri king of Israel. He followed the ways of the house of Ahab and did evil in the eyes of the Lord, as the house of Ahab had done, for he was related by marriage to Ahab’s family.
(2 Kings 8:25-27)
In the seventh year of Jehu, Joash became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem forty years. His mother’s name was Zibiah; she was from Beersheba. Joash did what was right in the eyes of the Lord all the years Jehoiada the priest instructed him.
(2 Kings 12:1-2)
In the second year of Jehoash son of Jehoahaz king of Israel, Amaziah son of Joash king of Judah began to reign. He was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem twenty-nine years. His mother’s name was Jehoaddan; she was from Jerusalem. He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, but not as his father David had done.
(2 Kings 14:1-3)
so, one out of these three did evil, and reigned only one year, but the other 2 did what was right in the sight of God, and reigned 40 & 29 years.
Jehoiakim was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem eleven years. His mother’s name was Zebidah daughter of Pedaiah; she was from Rumah. And he did evil in the eyes of the Lord, just as his predecessors had done.
(2 Kings 23:36-37)
Jehoiakim also did evil in the sight of God -- "just as his predecessors" -- and it was during his reign that Nebuchadnezzar subdued the land, and made him his vassal for 3 years ((2 Kings 24)) so, @Nehemiah6 -- when you say these 4 were left out 'because of their sins' did you read the scripture at all to determine this? or did you just make it up? did you expect no one reading your thread would look at the scripture? like you did when you pretended Matthew 1 & 1 Chronicles 3 are the same? because it does not hold water. 2 out of the 4 did evil, but the other 2 did what was right.
furthermore, Matthew skips Jehoiakim to include his son Jehoiachin --
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. His mother’s name was Nehushta daughter of Elnathan; she was from Jerusalem. He did evil in the eyes of the Lord, just as his father had done.
(2 Kings 24:8-9)
if the explanation is that Jehoiakim - who reigned 11 years - was excluded for the evil he did, why is Jehoiachin - who reigned only 3 months - included, seeing that he did exactly the same evil ?
BTW -- so no one gets the wrong idea about what i'm writing:
i am not at all arguing Matthew is mistaken. Matthew's genealogy is a puzzle, and it has an answer.
we don't need some kind of republican 'alternative facts' when we find mysterious things in the scripture.
let those who love the Lord hate lies!
the answers are there; we need to find Christ in what's written, and seek them out.
i am not challenging the book of Matthew. i am arguing for the truth, and looking for it.
i am not at all arguing Matthew is mistaken. Matthew's genealogy is a puzzle, and it has an answer.
we don't need some kind of republican 'alternative facts' when we find mysterious things in the scripture.
let those who love the Lord hate lies!
the answers are there; we need to find Christ in what's written, and seek them out.
i am not challenging the book of Matthew. i am arguing for the truth, and looking for it.
Maybe 1 cron is mysterious puzzling why does Matthew have to be the one that is puzzling?
You have already been given the truth. Matthew wrote the genealogy of Christ as instructed by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore he omitted those whom God omitted and retained those whom God retained. Furthermore, it was not even necessary for him to include four Gentile women in that genealogy, but God directed him to do so. He even included Manasseh and Jeconiah, when one would have expected them to be excluded.
ok, let's suppose it is that way..
i got a couple questions - why do several chapters of both the book of Chronicles and of Kings list 4 kings who never actually existed? why do they devote several chapters to describing their imaginary reigns and why do these two books of the Bible give their wives names and their son's names and say they are the children of other kings?
which is more plausible? God had the chroniclers record & describe fake kings spanning decades of history for several chapters in two different books of the scripture? or God had Matthew in a single chapter & a half-dozen verses telescope genealogy such that the literal record be condensed to reflect some certain structure?
yup, it's called the Bible. and i'm not trying to cover up the things in it i don't understand, as tho to pretend they aren't there.
yup, see post #63
yup, see post #28, 48 & 63
let's figure out why God has Matthew write this record this way!
let's not pretend there is no discrepancy & hope no one will actually read the OT
let's not teach people answers that do not agree with the facts
let's not discourage people from studying what the scripture actually says
what does that have to do with anything? if you bother to read the genealogies in, for example, 1 Chronicles or 2nd Kings, you'd see that the mothers of men listed there are often, but not always named. Matthew is not the first time in the Bible anyone's mother was ever recorded.
why would anyone "have expected" an historical record of genealogy to omit generations? and to then say there are a certain number when the actual literal number is greater by the count of those who were disregarded?
There is a answer for sure, it’s deep I know for there was kings that are not even mentioned as well. but the question is why and is it important to know today that a another deep question hehe.
why does the four gospels use paraphrasing, Luke and mark used a lot of paraphrases so does Matthew and John, did the author sum up things in a shorten version possible, Matthew version could of covered just certain people for a certain reason.
i thought this might be useful to think about -- looked up general meaning of the names of the kings of Judah from David to the Babylonian captivity. some of the name meanings i'm listing here may be able to be stated better than what i've put; i just did a general internet search and recorded the first meaning i found for each.
those Matthew 1 ignores are in purple
those Matthew 1 ignores are in purple
- Solomon
- "peaceful"
- Rehoboam
- "he enlarges the people"
- Abia
- "great"
- Asa
- "healer"
- Jehosaphat
- "Yah has judged"
- Joram
- "Yah has exalted"
- Ahaziah
- "Yah has taken"
- Joash
- "fire of Yah"
- Amaziah
- "Yah is mighty"
- Azariah
- "Yah has helped"
- Jotham
- "Yah is perfect"
- Ahaz
- "has held"
- Hezekiah
- "Yah strengthens"
- Manasseh
- "causing to forget"
- Amon
- "faithful"
- Josiah
- "Yah has healed"
- Jehoiakim
- "raised by Yah"
- Jeconiah
- "God will establish"
Some other names I think was kings though when it was divided the southern and the northern parts, Pekahiah, Pekah, Omri, Hoshea
Hey thanks for the info that’s interesting, and of coarse the ones who did overthrow the other kings are not legit kings maybe even the ones they over thrown, but are any on the northern side legit kings and was this division the reason there’s extra kings in 1 cron or less in Matthew.
while i was putting this together i realized that a spiritual song i know, a lot of the lyrics are taken from these names -
knowing this man, it wouldn't surprise me that he was looking at the same things we are looking at when he wrote this -- it's about Christ ♥
"the Builder, the Hidden One"
something that stands out in the chart immediately is that if Matthew is missing names "because of their sin" as @Nehemiah6 said, then Matthew should only have 4 kings in his list, not 14. there were very few good kings in either Judah or Israel's history.
it may have more to do with the meaning of the ones God "hides" in Matthew 1 --
"God has taken"
"the fire of God"
"the might of God"
"God raises"
this is concerning the time from David, 'man after God's own heart' to the time of the temple being destroyed and the people taken captive. and it's about Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God Himself manifest in the flesh -- hidden in flesh, not revealed by flesh and blood but by His Spirit. it's written here in Matthew because it's teaching us about Christ - Who came to His own but was rejected by them, Who takes the kingdom away from those who reject & hate Him and gives it to a strange people He raises up from all nations. Who set aside His glory, took on the form of servant, meek and lowly, offering Himself to be taken captive in order to set captives free, almighty but laying down His life to give life to the dead who believe Him, Who died and was raised to life.
hmm interesting, so maybe Matthew is focusing on the deity of Christ and 1 cron is the kings deity