Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Your problem is you are looking at the keeping as if it's by the merit of works, as if salvation is payment owed you for righteous work. It's not.
You keep the free gift by continuing to trust in and rely on the message of forgiveness you first heard. That's how you received the free gift of life, that is how you will keep it.


This is no more true than you being left on your own by your parents to learn how to walk.


The free gift is eternal life.
You have a down payment of that life in you through faith in Christ. As long as you have the down payment of eternal life in you through continued trust and belief in Christ it guarantees that you'll get the rest of it later. That's why you should keep that down payment through continued trust in Christ until the time comes when He gives the rest of the promise to those who are trusting him for it.

God forbid anyone should listen to his.

It contradicts itself. And can not be trusted.

Its states sakvation is a GIFT as LONG AS WE DO SOMETHING

Thats not a gift, Thats giving someone something, then asking for payment if they want to continue to keep the gift. Meaning it Was never a gift in the first place.

Its like giving your kid a car. You made the down payment on the load. Now your kid has to continue to belief and in doing so. Make the payment, or the gift will be lost.

Its only a gift, if you paid for it in full. And give the gift with no strings attached. Out of love.

 

[EleventhHour]

And he wants to take everyone down the path of insecurity with him, Relying on self. And not God.

Yes and that is why we continue to expose ... people can eventually see how wrong he is...... case in point ... @TooFastTurtle

What I find frustrating in Ralph's same ole argument is that it does not hold up to scripture and defies reason.... arghhh!!

 

[Judges1318]

We could never add to the perfect righteousness of Christ which is what will justify us before God

Just as we are not to try with works of merit to add to the righteousness of God that we have received through faith in Christ, so it is, also, that we are not to cast away the righteousness of God we have in Christ by no longer having faith in Christ.

 

[Chris1975]

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and [f]manifest Myself to him.”


22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”


23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

 

[EleventhHour]

Your problem is you are looking at the 'keeping' as if it's by the merit of works, as if salvation is payment owed you for righteous work. It's not.
You keep the free gift by continuing to trust in and rely on the message of forgiveness you first heard. That's how you received the free gift of life, that is how you will keep it.


This is no more true than you being left on your own by your parents to learn how to walk.


The free gift is eternal life.
You have a down payment of that life in you through faith in Christ. As long as you have the down payment of eternal life in you through continued trust and belief in Christ it guarantees that you'll get the rest of it later. That's why you should keep that down payment through continued trust in Christ until the time comes when He gives the rest of the promise to those who are trusting him for it.

More making it up as you go along once again
.... I cannot contain myself and so I respond..

I really, truly, absolutely and completely despise what you have written here.

Salvation is a complete gift..... not a down payment and not a future promise.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

What a way to live...... never really sure....tsk tsk!!

I believe my wife and I will never be divorced. God, may it be!

Most marriages end in divorce, though. Can you understand the comparison? The husband is a type of Christ. The wife, a type of the believer, a picture of the church.

In the letters to the churches in Revelation, you see the relationships with Christ that were good, those that were in danger and those that had failed. It's a terrible thing to be blotted out of the Book of Life.

 

[EleventhHour]

It's a terrible thing to be blotted out of the Book of Life.

A believer is not blotted out of the Book of Life... scripture does not contradict itself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just as we are not to try with our works to add to the righteousness of God we have received through faith, so it is, also, that we are not to cast away the righteousness of God we have in Christ by no longer having faith in Christ.

The only way you stop trusting christ is your belief that christ is not trustworthy.

Its good to know you have doubts about Gods trustworthiness

Now please stop trying to turn people away from trusting in Christ by thinking it is their own power

 

[John146]

Just as we are not to add to the righteousness of God we have received through faith, so it is, also, that we are not to cast away the righteousness of God we have received through faith by no longer having faith in Christ.

Thankfully, it’s the faith of Jesus Christ that justifies the believer, not our individual faith. If you see the difference then maybe you too can have eternal security without works.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and [f]manifest Myself to him.”


22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”


23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

This is not a requirement to be saved,

it is descriptive of those who are saved.

We love because God first loved us

we have no capacity to love God apart from first recieving his full and unconditional love in salvation.

It is smart if we try not to teach about Gods love if we do not understand it, It just sends us further into unbelief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe my wife and I will never be divorced. God, may it be!

Most marriages end in divorce, though. Can you understand the comparison? The husband is a type of Christ. The wife, a type of the believer, a picture of the church.

In the letters to the churches in Revelation, you see the relationships with Christ that were good, those that were in danger and those that had failed. It's a terrible thing to be blotted out of the Book of Life.

If your wife starts to fail you. You will lose faith in her. And if your relationship is based on this, You will leave.

Thats why their are so many divorces. Our love is conditional. Not unconditional like God calls it to be.

Sadly, we treat God the same way. And if we do not think he is meeting our needs, we run, and lose faith. And eventually ask for a divorce.

 

[Chris1975]

A believer is not blotted out of the Book of Life... scripture does not contradict itself.

Revelation 3
3 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 [c]You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.


The bible is very straightforward.

 

[mailmandan]

I do. So I am saved? I think I need to fast the self-righteousness out of me. @mailmandan What church do you go to?

I attend a non-denominational Christian church.

 

[John146]

Thankfully, it’s the faith of Jesus Christ that justifies the believer, not our individual faith. If you see the difference then maybe you too can have eternal security without works.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Understanding the doctrine of Christ’s faith and it’s His faith that justifies the believer would end this whole discussion.

 

[Chris1975]

Revelation 3
3 “And to the [a]angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before [b]God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 [c]You have a few names [d]even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.


The bible is very straightforward.

Who is blotted out from the Book of Life?
Ans: Those who DON'T overcome

Who are those who DON'T overcome?
Ans: Those who have DEFILED their garments.

 

[mailmandan]

And these false prophets, if or when they lead away the brethren from the faith, then the brethren, too, run the risk of becoming TWICE DEAD (falling away from the faith). Why does Jude warn the brethren so earnestly, if the brethren are at no risk due to OSAS? Given that any thought?

Jude did not say that these certain men who have have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ were "once alive.”

A tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NASB says "doubly dead."

Notice in Matthew 15:13 that Jesus said every plant that my Heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.

 

[Chris1975]

Jude did not say that these certain men who have have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ were "once alive.”

A tree being dead to the core as such a tree was utterly incapable of producing good fruit then being uprooted is twice dead. The NASB says "doubly dead."

Notice in Matthew 15:13 that Jesus said every plant that my Heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted.

The only way you can be twice dead, is it you are dead (like we all were in Adam), were made alive (only in Christ), then died again (Falling away from the faith). Any other explanation is simply twisting scripture.

If you are dead you are dead. Being twice dead when you are already dead means nothing. Being twice dead ordinarily means there was life in-between.

 

[Judges1318]

Thankfully, it’s the faith of Jesus Christ that justifies the believer, not our individual faith. If you see the difference then maybe you too can have eternal security without works.

We are justified through the faith that God gives.
He gives the evidence of the things not seen (that's called 'faith'-Hebrews 11:1), then we must believe that evidence in order to be justified.
Just having the evidence from God that the things not seen really are true doesn't justify/save anybody.
It is through the evidence from God that the things not seen are true that we then believe and are justified.

If you see the difference between faith (knowing something is true) and believing (putting your trust in what you now know to be true) you'd see that a person receives the gift of eternal life through faith that leads to believing/trusting. I have that gift because I am right now believing and trusting in what God has shown me to be true about the gospel that I can not see with my eyes.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

We all know this. I don't see anyone here saying we earn a declaration of righteousness through the merit of works. But, please, if I missed those posts, show me.

 

[mailmandan]

The only way you can be twice dead, is it you are dead (like we all were in Adam), were made alive (only in Christ), then died again (Falling away from the faith). Any other explanation is simply twisting scripture.

If you are dead you are dead. Being twice dead when you are already dead means nothing. Being twice dead ordinarily means there was life in-between.

I already explain the passage to you. Jude is exhorting believers to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints (vs. 3) because certain ungodly men who have crept in unnoticed. Jude further describes these ungodly men as ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit (vs. 19) In CONTRAST to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, andPRESERVED in Jesus Christ (vs. 1). Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are PRESERVED FOREVER, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who is blotted out from the Book of Life?
Ans: Those who DON'T overcome

Who are those who DON'T overcome?
Ans: Those who have DEFILED their garments.

How do we overcome?

1 John 4:4
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1 John 5:5
Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

That John gets you every time, Remembr the same John that wrote 1 John is the same John who wrote revelations.

When are you going to start believing John? And stop making him contradict himself and Jesus and the rest of scripture?

And who defiled their garments? Lets see, Whoever sinned.

That would be all of us, you included.

Good luck trying to earn your salvation man.