The Puritans

[KhedetOrthos]

Yes, it seems the seeds of the various reformation movements were germinating right from the start with the central issue being where the seat of authority resteed....Could one enter into relationship directly with God, or could the great unwashed only access the divine by subjecting themselves to the authority of a bishop and the clergy. It was a Roman structure that won out in the end...even the Pontif, borrowed from the old Roman Pagan Pontificate

While you are right about the dispute between Rome and the rest of the churches, you have mis-timed it. The ideas of the reformation were alien to the church fathers who simply took Jesus at his word and participated in the church he founded. By the way. Bishops are described in the New Testament, right down to their qualifications.

 

[StrugglingTilMyReward]

While you are right about the dispute between Rome and the rest of the churches, you have mis-timed it. The ideas of the reformation were alien to the church fathers who simply took Jesus at his word and participated in the church he founded. By the way. Bishops are described in the New Testament, right down to their qualifications.

The book I just read had numerous early church leaders arguing over this point....starting around the year 200. The ordination of women clergy was also a bone of contention back then....and some churches, when they met....they drew lots to determine who would deliver the sermon or who would do the readings etc, so that those who lead would also be called to follow.

 

[calibob]

I don’t think any of those people rather puritans or pilgrims used sound teaching, they came from slave trading country’s and welcome it in North America and even native Americans we’re sold into slavery after the colonists got established they were just like any other lawless rebellious clan before leaving England and after

1 Tim 1:10
9We realize that law is not enacted for the righteous, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for killers of father or mother, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral,for homosexuals, for slave traders and liars and perjurers, and for anyone else who is averse to sound teaching

I never claimed that the Puritans (or any other group) were rightous people my investigation started with King James and how politics crept into the churches in a sort of clandestine manor. Effected the most popular Bible translation of all time and cased several denominations to flee becoming refugees in a strange land. I hope it sounds like a familiar plot.

People that claim the KJV is the perfect, unaltered word of God have been brainwashed. Everything that humans touch become jaded in some degree. That's why we need the Holy Spirit's gift of discernment to sepperate the wheat from the chaff and seek the spirit of the law because the letter of the law becomes imperfect after men meddle with it.

 

[calibob]

The book I just read had numerous early church leaders arguing over this point....starting around the year 200. The ordination of women clergy was also a bone of contention back then....and some churches, when they met....they drew lots to determine who would deliver the sermon or who would do the readings etc, so that those who lead would also be called to follow.

Don't forget for a moment that Paul rebuked Peter and likened him to a Judaizer for being a part of the circumcision group.

 

[Blik]

Church Fathers?

The important thing to know about the first church fathers was that in Paul's time and until the year 70 they were Jewish and were of the Jewish culture. That meant that they knew OT scripture well and were men like James the brother of Jesus. In the year 70 there was a rebellion against the Romans by the Jews and again in 132 so that the Jewish death toll was so great that the Jews were almost wiped out in Jerusalem. The converted idol worshipers became the church fathers. They didn't have the knowledge of scripture Jews had so many ideas from the occult was part of the way they thought. The church lost much of what Christ gave us.

Constantine the Roman emperor who introduced Christianity to Rome decided that the Christian church needed to be united, they needed to decide just witch ideas were to be accepted. A council was called, and the Nicene Creed was formed. Sabbath was officially changed to Sunday and Easter was made official.

One of the goals was to not do anything the Jews did, Constantine wrote they were an evil people.

 

[JamOn]

I never claimed that the Puritans (or any other group) were rightous people my investigation started with King James and how politics crept into the churches in a sort of clandestine manor. Effected the most popular Bible translation of all time and cased several denominations to flee becoming refugees in a strange land. I hope it sounds like a familiar plot.

People that claim the KJV is the perfect, unaltered word of God have been brainwashed. Everything that humans touch become jaded in some degree. That's why we need the Holy Spirit's gift of discernment to sepperate the wheat from the chaff and seek the spirit of the law because the letter of the law becomes imperfect after men meddle with it.

Yes sir I know you didn’t say anything on that at all, I was referring to in general what people think of the people that came to North America because of not being able to express their religious views, I’m not so sure it was all on that bases.

the English knew that Spain had landed in north America close to a hundreds years before and did have a outpost in Florida. the English and French wanted a piece of the pie also and some of the people that came was sent on that purpose. America certainly wasn’t a unknown land or a never explored continent, it well known for many years before the outposts of Jamestown or Plymouth.

well that something about king James, he fully backed slave trading, England in his time also was a major trader of slaves he had his hand it as with other kings and monarchies.

 

[Blik]

We should notice that the pilgrims and Puritans were a Christian people and their colonies lasted, the Virginia settlement wasn't a Christian settlement and it died out.

 

[JamOn]

We should notice that the pilgrims and Puritans were a Christian people and their colonies lasted, the Virginia settlement wasn't a Christian settlement and it died out.

That is Not what I’ve read, the pilgrims from holland came to Virginia then Jamestown which by the way is named after king James. yes in the early days about 80% got wiped out, but it didn’t die out, I live not far from the site that anyone can visit, they even dress up like the day but it certainly didn’t die out.

 

[JamOn]

You might be referring to the two different thanksgiving, the first was in 1619 celebrating the landing at Jamestown. up north at Plymouth the second colony that celebration in 1621 was to God for bounty’s and blessings thus is where the modern thanksgiving holiday came from but there was two. I’m not sure natives was there and bringing corn and other stuff. the first settlers as in religious sects the puritans and pilgrims per say where Calvinist.

here’s a small comparison of the two.

https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/jamestown-and-plymouth-compare-and-contrast.htm

 

[JamOn]

Good thread calibob, had me digging into history and learned something of it. on the topic of puritans.

1. The Pilgrims were dissenters from the Church of England and established the Puritan or Congregational Church.

2. there was other bibles taken to America on the mayflower also and no doubt on the other earlier ships.
but the Geneva was popular among the puritans. I didn’t know the Geneva was the first English Bible to use the verse numbering system created by some other guy, reading about the Geneva is informative.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Bible

 

[JamOn]

Pull up them breeches boy hehe, I’m sure they had a laugh on that one.

One interesting variation of the Geneva Bible is the so-called "Breeches Bible", the first of which appeared in 1579. In the Breeches Bible, Genesis Chapter III Verse 7 reads: "Then the eies of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked, and they sewed figge tree leaves together, and made themselves breeches." In the King James Version of 1611, "breeches" was changed to "aprons". Geneva Bibles with the "breeches" passage continued to be printed well into the time of the King James Bible of 1611.

 

[Kavik]

Here in New England, the Puritan religion is still around - it "morphed" into the Congregational Church. Most of the picturesque white steepled churches you see in photos of New England scenes are the 'First Congregationalist Church of X" where x = the name of the town/village where they were built. Most of these were the original Puritan churches. Not sure when Puritanism came to be called the Congregationalist Church. I don't believe there are many Congregationalist churches outside of the New England area.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here in New England, the Puritan religion is still around - it "morphed" into the Congregational Church.

It was the Pilgrims who were Congregationalists. The Puritans were Calvinists. and Presbyterian and Reformed churches would be in the tradition of Puritanism.