Are Christians given empowerment to do all the works Jesus did? Bethel and their resurrection claims
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
How does it relate?
Sane non-Reformed people hold the same exact view.
Yes, I do believe God is in control and I am not a "little god" who can command God around like a cosmic butler.
And, I know that all things are for his glory, including suffering, which he uses to conform the believer to the image of Christ.
And, my hope is in the resurrection of the dead, not in temporal healing.
And, that faith involves enduring hardship, some of which is physical conditions, per Hebrews 11.
But, all I need to do is read the Bible to know that.
Sane non-Reformed people hold the same exact view.
Yes, I do believe God is in control and I am not a "little god" who can command God around like a cosmic butler.
And, I know that all things are for his glory, including suffering, which he uses to conform the believer to the image of Christ.
And, my hope is in the resurrection of the dead, not in temporal healing.
And, that faith involves enduring hardship, some of which is physical conditions, per Hebrews 11.
But, all I need to do is read the Bible to know that.
-
1
- Show all
Costi Hinn, the nephew of Benny Hinn, is a legitimate evangelical pastor now.
He has written two books on the fallacies involved in the charismatic/Word of Faith world.
His interviews are great if someone wants to learn more about the problems with this worldview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ac_DJ3e9jU
Here is one that specifically applies to the resurrection stunt of Bethel Church:
He has written two books on the fallacies involved in the charismatic/Word of Faith world.
His interviews are great if someone wants to learn more about the problems with this worldview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ac_DJ3e9jU
Here is one that specifically applies to the resurrection stunt of Bethel Church:
-
2
- Show all
One of the most shameful consequences of the charismatic/Word of Faith teaching is this idea that people who are not healed lack faith, and therefore viewing them as inferior. These sorts of people won't come right out and say it, but that is what they think.
As a member of a cult that taught, in essence, the same ideas, I didn't realize the dissonance of my own thinking on that matter.
Read Hebrews 11 and see all the individuals who suffered without being delivered, yet still looked forward to their eternal reward and the fulfillment of the promises of God.
Like I said, It's almost like charismatics are reading a different Bible where they only see selected proof-texts without reading the entire Bible which teaches that sanctification involves suffering, just like it did with Christ.
Faith is not commanding God to do your will. Faith is trusting God when he does his will.
This is an excellent quote from this message:
As a member of a cult that taught, in essence, the same ideas, I didn't realize the dissonance of my own thinking on that matter.
Read Hebrews 11 and see all the individuals who suffered without being delivered, yet still looked forward to their eternal reward and the fulfillment of the promises of God.
Like I said, It's almost like charismatics are reading a different Bible where they only see selected proof-texts without reading the entire Bible which teaches that sanctification involves suffering, just like it did with Christ.
Faith is not commanding God to do your will. Faith is trusting God when he does his will.
This is an excellent quote from this message:
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I was going to point out prior to your last post that you are indeed very angry, but didn’t want to seem like I was attacking you. Truth is, your anger, not your faith, is your driving force.
It’s interesting to see how incorrect some people are with their judgment of others the way you are incorrect in your judgment with me. Your misquote: “I'll pray that you reach the spiritual height I have reached” is not what I said, and your wordage change the meaning of what I actually did say.
May you be encouraged, rather than praying that I or anyone else be given the faith to be able to endure suffering, how about praying that we don’t endure suffering, period. I’ve endured great suffering, and God is the only reason I still draw breath on this side of Heaven.
God is my focus; His love; His grace; His very real presence in all our lives and the blessings He shares on a daily basis. Sadly you feel I’m guilty of self idolatry. Perhaps it’s my delivery; perhaps it’s your unprovoked anger clouding your judgment. Whatever the case, may you be blessed on this day and always.
It’s interesting to see how incorrect some people are with their judgment of others the way you are incorrect in your judgment with me. Your misquote: “I'll pray that you reach the spiritual height I have reached” is not what I said, and your wordage change the meaning of what I actually did say.
May you be encouraged, rather than praying that I or anyone else be given the faith to be able to endure suffering, how about praying that we don’t endure suffering, period. I’ve endured great suffering, and God is the only reason I still draw breath on this side of Heaven.
God is my focus; His love; His grace; His very real presence in all our lives and the blessings He shares on a daily basis. Sadly you feel I’m guilty of self idolatry. Perhaps it’s my delivery; perhaps it’s your unprovoked anger clouding your judgment. Whatever the case, may you be blessed on this day and always.
-
1
- Show all
By the way, this is the prayer no one wants to pray for themselves.
God, I pray that I experience the suffering that I need to experience in order to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Amen.
I doubt any charismatic or Word of Faith person wants to say that prayer. Why? Because they don't want to suffer in order to be conformed to the image of Christ. They want a life of comfort.
Truth be told, I do too. But I know what I need.
God, I pray that I experience the suffering that I need to experience in order to be conformed to the image of Christ.
Amen.
I doubt any charismatic or Word of Faith person wants to say that prayer. Why? Because they don't want to suffer in order to be conformed to the image of Christ. They want a life of comfort.
Truth be told, I do too. But I know what I need.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
A lot of little booklets were released by his ministry, carved out of his sermons. I probably read two of them and one full length book. But I have known a couple of fans, one a Rhema grad, who constantly quoted him.
I remember one of his booklets dealt with death. As I recall he believed everyone had their time. But he thought he gave an example of sone preacher-Wgglesworth I think- who died in his sleep peacefully without suffering illness whis an example of how someone with faith for healing would go.
I never read where he said he was going to 120 or that anyone with enough faith would. He might have expressed a desire to do so. My dad has. I have provably done so too.
What Charismatic believes they do not eventually die? I think I met one woman who believed like that--not a church leader.
Eye glasses can be for eyes adjusting to certain tasks and age adjusts them to see afar off. I have not surveyed or checked all charismatics' mouths for cavities and I do not know how you could verify your claims. I seem to recall Hagin pointing out Wigglesworth had his teeth when he died.
I disagree with some of Hagins teachings, for example His idea that because God was good that He did not cause God to be sick when Yahweh clearly relates in scripture that he put sicknesses upon the Egyptians.
What about the guarantee of healing if elders anoint with oil in the name if the Lord And pray the prayer of faith in James 5?
Pentecostals and Charismatics believe in healing and miracles but there is a variety of beliefs on whether all healing is guaranteed in the atonement.
I remember one of his booklets dealt with death. As I recall he believed everyone had their time. But he thought he gave an example of sone preacher-Wgglesworth I think- who died in his sleep peacefully without suffering illness whis an example of how someone with faith for healing would go.
I never read where he said he was going to 120 or that anyone with enough faith would. He might have expressed a desire to do so. My dad has. I have provably done so too.
He was dead and rotting by age 90.
Correct me if I'm wrong
My point was, no charismatic avoids the effects of the Curse through their personal healing. They all have visual defects, cavities, eyeglasses, and eventually die.
Correct me if I'm wrong
My point was, no charismatic avoids the effects of the Curse through their personal healing. They all have visual defects, cavities, eyeglasses, and eventually die.
Eye glasses can be for eyes adjusting to certain tasks and age adjusts them to see afar off. I have not surveyed or checked all charismatics' mouths for cavities and I do not know how you could verify your claims. I seem to recall Hagin pointing out Wigglesworth had his teeth when he died.
I disagree with some of Hagins teachings, for example His idea that because God was good that He did not cause God to be sick when Yahweh clearly relates in scripture that he put sicknesses upon the Egyptians.
What about the guarantee of healing if elders anoint with oil in the name if the Lord And pray the prayer of faith in James 5?
Pentecostals and Charismatics believe in healing and miracles but there is a variety of beliefs on whether all healing is guaranteed in the atonement.
Well, simple question...does God use suffering from sickness to sanctify believers?
Are you going to tell the believe who suffers from life-long chronic conditions such as paralysis that he is suffering needlessly, and his suffering has no value?
By the way, I have never heard a credible story where a paralytic person has been healed, or an individual with cerebral palsy. I have never heard anyone whose amputated limb grew back. I have never heard of a profoundly blind or deaf person who regained sight and hearing from faith healings outside of the biblical miracles.
How do we think of the brothers and sisters who suffer such infirmities? Do we view them as lacking sufficient faith to be healed? Are all such individuals faithless?
It's a waste of time to employ reasoning skills, though. If a person simply reads the Bible they can see the inconsistencies of these individuals. It's pretty comical outside of that.
I know WoF people who claim this theology, even though they have heart stints and are old, grey, fat and have eyeglasses. In fact, some of their TEACHERS have these conditions, and have had multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to appear younger. It's all like professional wrestling..everyone else except the most naive (and little kids) know it's fake, yet they still watch the shows.
Are you going to tell the believe who suffers from life-long chronic conditions such as paralysis that he is suffering needlessly, and his suffering has no value?
By the way, I have never heard a credible story where a paralytic person has been healed, or an individual with cerebral palsy. I have never heard anyone whose amputated limb grew back. I have never heard of a profoundly blind or deaf person who regained sight and hearing from faith healings outside of the biblical miracles.
How do we think of the brothers and sisters who suffer such infirmities? Do we view them as lacking sufficient faith to be healed? Are all such individuals faithless?
It's a waste of time to employ reasoning skills, though. If a person simply reads the Bible they can see the inconsistencies of these individuals. It's pretty comical outside of that.
I know WoF people who claim this theology, even though they have heart stints and are old, grey, fat and have eyeglasses. In fact, some of their TEACHERS have these conditions, and have had multiple cosmetic surgeries in order to appear younger. It's all like professional wrestling..everyone else except the most naive (and little kids) know it's fake, yet they still watch the shows.
-
1
- Show all
I have asked for healing for various conditions. It is God's sovereign will that they remain unhealed.
In fact, his glory is displayed more powerful through their weakness.
Do you guys ever think about that? How God takes the weak and those society deems as of less value, and manifests his glory through them more powerfully?
So that there is no boasting?
In fact, his glory is displayed more powerful through their weakness.
Do you guys ever think about that? How God takes the weak and those society deems as of less value, and manifests his glory through them more powerfully?
So that there is no boasting?
-
3
- Show all