why else would Jonah be sent?
why was Jonah miraculously compelled against his own will?
John 3:16-18 is not about God's universal love (there is no such thing).
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why else would Jonah be sent?
why was Jonah miraculously compelled against his own will?
That's not quite accurate. He was miraculously resurrected, and thus arrived at the conclusion that he could not run away from God and would have to do what he was commanded. And also to show Jonah that his racial prejudice was unacceptable, and that the Gentiles would enter into the Kingdom of God along with Jews.
But more importantly, to show the world that since everyone was saved in Nineveh, He does NOT elect some for salvation and others for damnation. He commands all men everywhere to repent, and in this case everyone in Nineveh repented.
This corresponds to the Scripture which says that God will have ALL MEN (all human beings] to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Which totally refutes Calvinistic nonsense.
@John146 do you also believe God in the garden asked Adam 'where are you?' because God genuinely had no clue?
how do you not see how stupid this is?
our conversation, if you recall, began with you contesting that God only predestined the method of salvation, not knowing what ((if any at all)) lost sheep He went out to seek. and you have turned it into, God is ignorant of the future, for the sake of human sovereignty, and you are now arguing that God declares judgement presumptuously, without knowledge, not being able to see the hearts of men until men declare themselves to Him. all for the sake of human sovereignty in salvation.
what are you afraid of, that redeemed man won't have an heart to do what is right unless there is a threat that he will be damned if he doesn't? dear John, don't you believe redemption is real?
you seized on Jonah saying 'oh you must answer me' -- not as though i didn't, but because you want me to appear to be unable to reply to your dialogue. but when did you answer John 6? or John 12? He tells people, they cannot believe because they are not His sheep -- what does that tell us about Ninevah? that they were His sheep & He sent a shepherd! "Assyria Mine handiwork" He calls them. handiwork??? does that mean they made themselves His sheep by believing the message?? no! the scripture says He knows whom He calls. it says, His sheep hear Him because they are His sheep.
that is completely opposed to the vanity of mankind. it is hard to swallow. i choose to press the right button and God is obligated to hand me the prize? totally easy for vain man to swallow. that puts us essentially in charge - makes us the creators of information and the authors of our own salvation. but what's the truth ?
i am glad that your open theism was brought to light through this rabbit trail, but let's get back to the real conversation, and quit playing proxy. when God leaves the 99 to go after the 1 does He have a clue what He's doing?
how do you not see how stupid this is?
our conversation, if you recall, began with you contesting that God only predestined the method of salvation, not knowing what ((if any at all)) lost sheep He went out to seek. and you have turned it into, God is ignorant of the future, for the sake of human sovereignty, and you are now arguing that God declares judgement presumptuously, without knowledge, not being able to see the hearts of men until men declare themselves to Him. all for the sake of human sovereignty in salvation.
what are you afraid of, that redeemed man won't have an heart to do what is right unless there is a threat that he will be damned if he doesn't? dear John, don't you believe redemption is real?
you seized on Jonah saying 'oh you must answer me' -- not as though i didn't, but because you want me to appear to be unable to reply to your dialogue. but when did you answer John 6? or John 12? He tells people, they cannot believe because they are not His sheep -- what does that tell us about Ninevah? that they were His sheep & He sent a shepherd! "Assyria Mine handiwork" He calls them. handiwork??? does that mean they made themselves His sheep by believing the message?? no! the scripture says He knows whom He calls. it says, His sheep hear Him because they are His sheep.
that is completely opposed to the vanity of mankind. it is hard to swallow. i choose to press the right button and God is obligated to hand me the prize? totally easy for vain man to swallow. that puts us essentially in charge - makes us the creators of information and the authors of our own salvation. but what's the truth ?
i am glad that your open theism was brought to light through this rabbit trail, but let's get back to the real conversation, and quit playing proxy. when God leaves the 99 to go after the 1 does He have a clue what He's doing?
what's not accurate?
Jonah's will was to flee. Jonah's will was for Ninevah not to hear the word of God. Jonah's will was to die rather than preach to Assyria. Jonah's will was for Ninevah not to repent. Jonah's will was for God to destroy Ninevah whether they repented or not. Jonah's will was for the vine God provided to remain and the worm He made not to eat it - and Jonah's thinking was that he was right to be angry about the the worm. Jonah's presence in Ninevah, the vine and the worm -- all of these are miraculous. even Ninevah's repentance is miraculous IMO.
Who is that worm?
Psalm 22:6
what are you calling 'not quite accurate' ??
o rly?
why was a Jewish prophet sent to Assyria?
did God have any kind of plan at all when He ordained this?
just on the off chance someone might surprise ignorant, blind God and believe?
random whim?
why does God call her 'My handiwork' ((Isaiah 19:25)) ?
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring,
and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and one Shepherd.
(John 10:16)
notice the LORD does not say, 'he might have other sheep, He doesn't really know, it's beyond Him to know for sure, but He hopes to find out one day, so He ought to go poke around and see whether anyone will become His sheep or not' He says He has other sheep. He knows this and He knows each of them by name and they shall hear His voice.
But he did die for all as many as the father gave him. All the names that are written in the lambs book of life the lamb slain from the foundation .The two key words to help unlock the mystery...understanding is as many as. Not 1 more or 1 less
Matthew 20:28King James Version Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
John 1:12King James Version But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 8:30King James Version As he spake these words, many believed on him.
John 17:2King James Version As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
two Books. Not all the names written of mankind. the book of the temporal life "all of humanity" It will be compared to another and in the end with the other book that will stand the test of time.
Whosoever's' name is not found in the lamb, our redeemers book of eternal they will be erased from the book of all of humanity leaving it empty. Having served its purpose It will be cast into the judgement fire along with death, the letter of the law. Neither will rise .
And he does not allow us to get saved. He works in us to both will and do His imputed pleasure. . saving us. Not of ourselves lest any man has a vain boast.
I would think because some turn things right side up. and not accrediting the clay needed to take away the work of the Holy Spirit.
Isaiah 29:16 King James Version Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the (handiwork masterpice) ) work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
And once Jonah discovered that there is no running away from God, he submitted his will to God. Read his prayer.
But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD. (Jonah 2:9)
But he was still not happy with the outcome when everyone was saved.
To show the world (including you and me) that even the most wicked heathen can be saved by God's grace.
To refute Calvinism. According to Calvinism only a fraction of Nineveh's so-called *elect* should have been saved. According to God all must be saved if they will repent, and all were saved. This is one of the best books in Scripture to show people that TULIP is bogus.
When Adam & Eve rebelled, it caught God off guard. So He had to rush to get His Son to die for ppl's sins.
When God called Abram, He didn't know if he'd be willing, so He had someone else in mind just in case.
When He told Abraham He came down to see what was happening in Sodom and Gomorrah, He didn't know until He came down to look the situation over.
When Abraham took Isaac and laid him on the altar and drew the knife to sacrifice, He didn't know if he'd be willing to do it until that very moment.
For an omniscient God, He doesn't seem to know very much in the Open Theism teaching.
But they try to take the literal approach and end up with egg all over their faces.
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.[Psalm 91:4] I guess He is some sort of super bird with wings and feathers. Hey, it literally says His feathers and under His wings. It's in the bible! Don't you believe it?!?!?
GOD Knew and thats why there was a storm: for Jonah to go overboard. There's a storm in our day for us to be trown overboard by the worl and face the Lord who is sending us to our generation, that "Will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled," to proclaim deliverance. So that those that are called, will hear, and who are you to decide?When Adam & Eve rebelled, it caught God off guard. So He had to rush to get His Son to die for ppl's sins.
When God called Abram, He didn't know if he'd be willing, so He had someone else in mind just in case.
When He told Abraham He came down to see what was happening in Sodom and Gomorrah, He didn't know until He came down to look the situation over.
When Abraham took Isaac and laid him on the altar and drew the knife to sacrifice, He didn't know if he'd be willing to do it until that very moment.
For an omniscient God, He doesn't seem to know very much in the Open Theism teaching.
But they try to take the literal approach and end up with egg all over their faces.
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.[Psalm 91:4] I guess He is some sort of super bird with wings and feathers. Hey, it literally says His feathers and under His wings. It's in the bible! Don't you believe it?!?!?
GOD Knew and thats why there was a storm: for Jonah to go overboard. There's a storm in our day for us to be trown overboard by the word, and face the Lord who is sending us to our generation that "Will not pass away until all these things be fulfilled." To proclaim deliverance. So that those that are called will hear.
There is a man that decided against "God is Love." It's not a woman, I don't see how a woman could decide such thing. After all woman learn to Love in raising children, much like "God is Love," just a little slow to learn, but men are the slowest to learn? Let me say wy. "Man that is born of woman is of few days and full of trouble." There is hiden meaning here, like everywhere in "The manifold wisdom of God." Man that is carried emotionally by woman, has a hard time finding the Lord as his first Love. And to believe "God is Love." And Loves him more than any other.
You add to the book of Jonah to fit your theology. I’m not willing to do that. Overthrow means to destroy. Your attempt was weak to define overthrow. I’m trying to let the Scripture be honest. Too many times man defines who God must be and then places God in our definition. That must not be so.
God sent Jonah to Nineveh to warn the people of their upcoming destruction. Jonah knew God was a God of mercy and their was a chance that Nineveh might believe the message of destruction, repent and cry out for mercy. And God in turn would change His mind and not destroy them.
I am not sure that I understand where you stand. Do you believe that the Jacob/Israel incompusses all of the elect?
The person @posthuman is conversing with is an open theist. That which I posted open theists teach. I was being tongue-in-cheek cheek, IOW, facetious.
God’s elect nation in the OT to carry the seed line, Jesus Christ, God’s elect. Elect unto salvation? No such thing.