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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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I agree.
But in the mean time, I am free to consider them dogs and pigs and not have anything to do with them, just as Jesus says. I don't have to let them tear me up and mock me. Jesus is actually saying to not let them do that. Don't keep tossing pearls to those who don't appreciate the pearls and trample them and then turn on you and tear you to pieces.
Christ said that, not me.
But in the mean time, I am free to consider them dogs and pigs and not have anything to do with them, just as Jesus says. I don't have to let them tear me up and mock me. Jesus is actually saying to not let them do that. Don't keep tossing pearls to those who don't appreciate the pearls and trample them and then turn on you and tear you to pieces.
Christ said that, not me.
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By the way, the passage is not just applicable to being punished for sinning. It applies to being disciplined, for righteousness sake, too. God will purposely bring adverse conditions into your life--sickness, poverty, harsh relationships, etc.--that force you to discipline yourself to walk the narrow path of righteousness. This kind of discipline is reserved for His sons. I was never forced into the discipline of practicing musical scales by any neighbor I had. Only my own father would and could do that. If we submit to the disciplines placed on us by our Father in heaven the result is peace and holiness...
"Later on, however, it (the disciplines of faith) produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." - Hebrews 12:11
"Later on, however, it (the disciplines of faith) produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." - Hebrews 12:11
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@UnitedWithChrist
Allow me to be offensive once again before I go on sabbatical and you can give me another thumbs down.
Allow me to be offensive once again before I go on sabbatical and you can give me another thumbs down.
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You should read stories of people who stopped believing in God and went back to the world and how they say that they were released from all things miserable about God. To them it showed that God was not real. But what really happened is they came to the point where God did not deal with their backsliding anymore and let them go and stopped disciplining them. And because he did that he has no more obligation as a Father to discipline them. They left, and refused all calls to come back. They will tell you themselves, life gets a lot easier when you do that. So, not being disciplined does not have to mean you were never a son whom God attempted to discipline.
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LOL...
I am not sure how you are offending me
Perhaps I've not followed your posts well enough to understand.
I am not sure how you are offending me
Perhaps I've not followed your posts well enough to understand.
I know that would not offend you in any way.
Let me try again!!
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@RebuildJesussChurch
Allow me to be offensive once again before I go on sabbatical and you can give me another thumbs down.
Salvation is secure and complete in Christ Jesus and wholly and completely apart from merit or works, works never saved, do not prove salvation and do not secure salvation.
Allow me to be offensive once again before I go on sabbatical and you can give me another thumbs down.
Salvation is secure and complete in Christ Jesus and wholly and completely apart from merit or works, works never saved, do not prove salvation and do not secure salvation.
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BINGO!
That's kind of what I was gettin' at.
They talk a good talk about how they can live in sin if they want. But that they'll get thumped if they do......but they never do.
That's kind of what I was gettin' at.
They talk a good talk about how they can live in sin if they want. But that they'll get thumped if they do......but they never do.
As Discern said which you have responded to above
They are sons, I would propose they were never sons because they are not disciplined.
Ps, I don't recall anyone on here who says what you accuse of above.
They can live in sin if they want???
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Why do you suppose people act like ungodly jerks in on line forums and they never get chastised by God for doing that? They just continue being a jerk. The times I've acted that way I couldn't continue because of my Dad lowering the hammer on me. But so many in on line forums that does not happen. We know because they keep acting the way they do.
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This is because, they never "press onwards to the "prize"", of the "High Calling of God." And, are content with sitting on their free gift. So, they never come to a "remembrance", of what, or who they are/were!
Of course it's by faith, and NOT through some "entitlement/works program", that one becomes saved!
It is however "works BY/THROUGH faith", where one becomes "Spiritually mature!"
But, post after post, thread after thread? "This "free gift of salvation?" Is as FAR as EVERYONE seems to wish to ASPIRE TO!
So "don't even DARE" in teaching/testifying/baring witness to ANYTHING BEYOND the "principle doctrines of Christ! "DON'T EVEN THINK IT!!"
Because, YOU will then be "pigeon-holed", and tossed into the "works FOR salvation", or "works in maintaining salvation" "round file!"
After all? The Disciples and Apostles of Christ in the N.T.? Are the ONLY ones that HAVE "Knowledge of God!"
And NOBODY ELSE DOES!
Answer:
1) Because of their GROSS UNDERESTIMATION concerning the strength of "the adversary!"
PLUS?
2) God's JEALOUSLY! = Wrath!
With "that" combination? There is NO WAY OUT! NONE! NADA! ZILCH! ZERO!
And?
NO ESCAPING!
The really sad part of this is? It's HAPPENING to the gentiles NOW!
NayborBear said:
But?
Not ALL believers and confessors of Jesus Christ, are "elect!"
Pass
NayborBear said:
The "elect" are proven warriors from a previous period of time, or "everlasting." One COULD even "liken" them to Michael's angels:
Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
The only difference being, that the "elect" are in flesh bodies.
You ain't seen "SCARY" Yet! It will be as "scary", as it will be SO INCREDIBLY SAD!
Perhaps, you should "get back on the bus."
Then, you may realize there's more then "just a tiny shred" of truth!
And there's that "ambiguous" term "works" again.
Are you speaking the "works" of a "man?" So that he might obtain "acts ATTRIBUTABLE towards "righteousness?" Such as that which Abram did, upon encountering Melchizedek?
Appears God thought PRETTY HIGHLY concerning Abrams WORKS!
Ever SINCE then? "Religionosity", has "ASSUMED CONTROL" over that which God HIMSELF deems as "RIGHTEOUSNESS!"
A pretty sad "state of affairs", Christendom has sunken into. Ain't it?
NayborBear said: If you be a thinkin' there's not a whole lotta differences between that which "the serpent" (Adam and Eve) done, what the "Pharoah" (Moses) did, what Herod (Jesus) did, and what "abortions" are doing?
You'd be a thinkin' correctly!
Well? I'm not 100% correct all the time. And am willing in the acknowledgement, of when I may "carry a tangent too far?"
I stand corrected, on the "abortion" issue.
The Previous "acts?" Were "committed", because they were SCARED!
The "abortion" issue, on the other hand, is committed, in OUTRIGHT DEFIANCE, and GODLESSNESS! With just a little less fear concerning the "stopping" OF God's WILL!
Rest assured though! "Fear", is "IN THE MIX!"
Of course it's by faith, and NOT through some "entitlement/works program", that one becomes saved!
It is however "works BY/THROUGH faith", where one becomes "Spiritually mature!"
But, post after post, thread after thread? "This "free gift of salvation?" Is as FAR as EVERYONE seems to wish to ASPIRE TO!
So "don't even DARE" in teaching/testifying/baring witness to ANYTHING BEYOND the "principle doctrines of Christ! "DON'T EVEN THINK IT!!"
Because, YOU will then be "pigeon-holed", and tossed into the "works FOR salvation", or "works in maintaining salvation" "round file!"
After all? The Disciples and Apostles of Christ in the N.T.? Are the ONLY ones that HAVE "Knowledge of God!"
And NOBODY ELSE DOES!
Answer:
1) Because of their GROSS UNDERESTIMATION concerning the strength of "the adversary!"
PLUS?
2) God's JEALOUSLY! = Wrath!
With "that" combination? There is NO WAY OUT! NONE! NADA! ZILCH! ZERO!
And?
NO ESCAPING!
The really sad part of this is? It's HAPPENING to the gentiles NOW!
NayborBear said:
But?
Not ALL believers and confessors of Jesus Christ, are "elect!"
Pass
NayborBear said:
The "elect" are proven warriors from a previous period of time, or "everlasting." One COULD even "liken" them to Michael's angels:
Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
The only difference being, that the "elect" are in flesh bodies.
You ain't seen "SCARY" Yet! It will be as "scary", as it will be SO INCREDIBLY SAD!
Perhaps, you should "get back on the bus."
Then, you may realize there's more then "just a tiny shred" of truth!
And there's that "ambiguous" term "works" again.
Are you speaking the "works" of a "man?" So that he might obtain "acts ATTRIBUTABLE towards "righteousness?" Such as that which Abram did, upon encountering Melchizedek?
Appears God thought PRETTY HIGHLY concerning Abrams WORKS!
Ever SINCE then? "Religionosity", has "ASSUMED CONTROL" over that which God HIMSELF deems as "RIGHTEOUSNESS!"
A pretty sad "state of affairs", Christendom has sunken into. Ain't it?
NayborBear said: If you be a thinkin' there's not a whole lotta differences between that which "the serpent" (Adam and Eve) done, what the "Pharoah" (Moses) did, what Herod (Jesus) did, and what "abortions" are doing?
You'd be a thinkin' correctly!
Well? I'm not 100% correct all the time. And am willing in the acknowledgement, of when I may "carry a tangent too far?"
I stand corrected, on the "abortion" issue.
The Previous "acts?" Were "committed", because they were SCARED!
The "abortion" issue, on the other hand, is committed, in OUTRIGHT DEFIANCE, and GODLESSNESS! With just a little less fear concerning the "stopping" OF God's WILL!
Rest assured though! "Fear", is "IN THE MIX!"
Post #119,148 is our discourse.
You asked, among other things, "What about people who do not trust in what God has shown them to be true?"
I told you. You disagreed.
People who do not trust in the truth about Jesus that God has shown them are not saved.
I don't care why EG disagrees with that. But why do you disagree with that?
You asked, among other things, "What about people who do not trust in what God has shown them to be true?"
I told you. You disagreed.
People who do not trust in the truth about Jesus that God has shown them are not saved.
I don't care why EG disagrees with that. But why do you disagree with that?
Let's look at what I said and the focus
My focus was that some people who believe in Jesus may not believe that God loves them as much as he loves Jesus.
The focus being the Agape love that God has for his children.
You said such people are not saved.
That's why I disagreed with that comment.
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