I started a thread concerning the antics of Bethel Church in regards to "declaring" the resurrection of a girl named Olive. Olive died and Bethel Church was "declaring" a resurrection which never occurred.
One of the topics I mentioned related to suffering, and whether God uses suffering to conform the belever to the image of Jesus.
Word of Faith teachers and other charismatics/Pentecostals often say "no".
Their teaching is that a good God would never use suffering to achieve his purpose in salvation, which is to conform the believer to the image of Christ.
Amongst his other poor teachings, Bill Johnson denies that Christianity has a "theology of suffering" such as this. In fact, he says those who teach a "theology of suffering" have a false gospel.
I am astounded by such a claim. One can read Scripture and see that suffering is decreed for believers. In fact, the faith-examples of Hebrews 11 are individuals who continued on, despite difficult circumstances. They were people who looked past what their eyes could see physically, and looked to a heavenly city, not accepting deliverance in this world.
Faith is evidenced by obedience, regardless of how we feel, because we know God promises a good result. But, this good result often isn't realized in this world.
So, I am starting a poll in regards to this question regarding suffering, but I am also asking where, in Scripture, we find teachings on suffering, and how suffering benefits the believer.
I have already presented some examples.
Suffering brings out the heart-issues that are still remaining, even after the new birth. When all is going well, the assumption is that we are blessed by God due to our adequate obedience. Once scarcity and difficulties are experienced, though, our motivations are exposed if we are real believers. We look deeper within ourselves to see if our heart is really as clean as we think it is. Suffering also causes us to hope in the new creation, rather than in this present evil world, where death is still experienced. Suffering demonstrates the genuineness of our faith, and Satan is unable to claim that the believer only follows God due to his gifts. The real believer loves God and wants Him no matter what.
Some will claim that a good God would never use suffering. They may claim that Satan is at the controls when this type of suffering occurs. However, I would deny this claim, and assert that God is ultimately sovereign no matter what. Even if Satan causes the suffering, in a given case, God is in control and and therefore has passively decreed it.
One person remarked in my presence that if God causes suffering, he wants no part of him. According to him, God wants sunshine and lollipops continually for all of us. Has he ever thought that suffering and trials are actually gifts of God?
What does the first chapter of James say about this? Notice that James talks about suffering, and then says every good and perfect gift comes from God. What does the reader think that these gifts are? A well-informed Bible reader avoids proof-texting and looks at the verses preceding and following the verse. The reality is that the good and perfect gift is related to suffering through trials.
You won't hear guys like Bill Johnson teaching this, though. There is no proper "theology of suffering" and it's a false gospel to claim otherwise, in his book. All of life is sunshine and lollipops.
However, if someone has a solid theology of suffering, he can endure suffering knowing that God is in control, and God is using these events to shape him into the image of Christ. In fact, it is dangerous to have no theology of suffering, and I venture to say that if a person has a bad theology of suffering, it will ultimately lead to unmet expectations, and possibly spiritual bankruptcy or shipwreck.
Read Job, Hebrews, 1 Peter, and Romans 8:28-30. I hope others come up with Scriptural references, too. I could do it, but I am pretty lazy this afternoon.
This is a foible of humans...we want comfort instead of suffering. And that is part of why we form a Play-doh god who doesn't use suffering to conform us to the image of Christ. We don't even want to think about the lack of comfort we will experience throughout our lives.
Here's just a few examples. I am wondering what other examples you can come up with.
Note that I am not claim God never provides us with pleasant moments, either. God blesses us with good times as well as difficult times. However, in the process of conforming the believer to the image of Christ, he will experience bad times too.
One of the topics I mentioned related to suffering, and whether God uses suffering to conform the belever to the image of Jesus.
Word of Faith teachers and other charismatics/Pentecostals often say "no".
Their teaching is that a good God would never use suffering to achieve his purpose in salvation, which is to conform the believer to the image of Christ.
Amongst his other poor teachings, Bill Johnson denies that Christianity has a "theology of suffering" such as this. In fact, he says those who teach a "theology of suffering" have a false gospel.
I am astounded by such a claim. One can read Scripture and see that suffering is decreed for believers. In fact, the faith-examples of Hebrews 11 are individuals who continued on, despite difficult circumstances. They were people who looked past what their eyes could see physically, and looked to a heavenly city, not accepting deliverance in this world.
Faith is evidenced by obedience, regardless of how we feel, because we know God promises a good result. But, this good result often isn't realized in this world.
So, I am starting a poll in regards to this question regarding suffering, but I am also asking where, in Scripture, we find teachings on suffering, and how suffering benefits the believer.
I have already presented some examples.
Suffering brings out the heart-issues that are still remaining, even after the new birth. When all is going well, the assumption is that we are blessed by God due to our adequate obedience. Once scarcity and difficulties are experienced, though, our motivations are exposed if we are real believers. We look deeper within ourselves to see if our heart is really as clean as we think it is. Suffering also causes us to hope in the new creation, rather than in this present evil world, where death is still experienced. Suffering demonstrates the genuineness of our faith, and Satan is unable to claim that the believer only follows God due to his gifts. The real believer loves God and wants Him no matter what.
Some will claim that a good God would never use suffering. They may claim that Satan is at the controls when this type of suffering occurs. However, I would deny this claim, and assert that God is ultimately sovereign no matter what. Even if Satan causes the suffering, in a given case, God is in control and and therefore has passively decreed it.
One person remarked in my presence that if God causes suffering, he wants no part of him. According to him, God wants sunshine and lollipops continually for all of us. Has he ever thought that suffering and trials are actually gifts of God?
What does the first chapter of James say about this? Notice that James talks about suffering, and then says every good and perfect gift comes from God. What does the reader think that these gifts are? A well-informed Bible reader avoids proof-texting and looks at the verses preceding and following the verse. The reality is that the good and perfect gift is related to suffering through trials.
You won't hear guys like Bill Johnson teaching this, though. There is no proper "theology of suffering" and it's a false gospel to claim otherwise, in his book. All of life is sunshine and lollipops.
However, if someone has a solid theology of suffering, he can endure suffering knowing that God is in control, and God is using these events to shape him into the image of Christ. In fact, it is dangerous to have no theology of suffering, and I venture to say that if a person has a bad theology of suffering, it will ultimately lead to unmet expectations, and possibly spiritual bankruptcy or shipwreck.
Read Job, Hebrews, 1 Peter, and Romans 8:28-30. I hope others come up with Scriptural references, too. I could do it, but I am pretty lazy this afternoon.
This is a foible of humans...we want comfort instead of suffering. And that is part of why we form a Play-doh god who doesn't use suffering to conform us to the image of Christ. We don't even want to think about the lack of comfort we will experience throughout our lives.
Here's just a few examples. I am wondering what other examples you can come up with.
Note that I am not claim God never provides us with pleasant moments, either. God blesses us with good times as well as difficult times. However, in the process of conforming the believer to the image of Christ, he will experience bad times too.
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