Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 24, 2019
395
196
43
Virginia
www.youtube.com
Anxiety is not a new thing.

"6Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 4:6-7


"25“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life e ?

28“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." - Matthew 5:25-34
Generally folks really don’t know what seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness practically, daily, moment by moment means. Separation between us and the Shepherd creates anxiety.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Generally folks really don’t know what seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness practically, daily, moment by moment means. Separation between us and the Shepherd creates anxiety.
I'll be a born again Christian 34 years this month and I'm still not real good at seeking his righteous way of handling things and his kingdom first when I get afraid for myself.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
The figures are for average life expectancy. A lot of people living "longer" had to do with childhood disease that was eliminated with vaccinations. Often those were tragic and traumatic deaths. Also a lot of young people died during the wars. Right now the drug epidemic is starting to reverse the rate so people are no longer living longer. During the 1,000 year reign of Christ people will live an average of 100 years and be considered to be cursed if they do not live a full life. ""Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed." (Isaiah 65:20) The Bible tells us that there will be a drug epidemic that will cause people to be thrown into the lake of fire. "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Rev21:8) The word for "sorcerers" is the same word we get Pharmacy from: pharmakois.

You got on only got one small detail wrong. In is not an average of a 100, it is IF he dies at a 100, it will be as if he is a young man when he died. They will go back to several hundred of years, when they die.

It is easier to understand it in Holman's Christian Standard Bible.

Isaiah 65:20 (HCSB)
20 In her, a nursing infant will no longer live only a few days, or an old man not live out his days. Indeed, the youth will die at a hundred years, and the one who misses a hundred years will be cursed.

Good job, writing that post.

You are Right, most Pastors will teach that Sorcerers are a reference to Drugs. The reason is if you wanted drugs in Bible times, you had to go to a Sorcerer, it was called Magic Potions in those days.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
You got on only got one small detail wrong. In is not an average of a 100, it is IF he dies at a 100, it will be as if he is a young man when he died. They will go back to several hundred of years, when they die.
I am offering this as a possible understanding of what Isaiah is saying. This is written for the people that will be alive in that day so the meaning is not as clear for us in our generation. We know that at the time of Noah after the flood people were limited to 120 years. If people are living to be 80 now then there is a good chance this trend will continue and the day will arrive when average life expediency will be 100. My dad served our community as a pediatrician for over 50 years. He was very much a part of the vaccination program that has increased life expectancy as much as it has increased already. My guess is that 20% of the people would not be alive today if it were not for the vaccine program. So science is making considerable progress in this area.

At the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ then there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth. I believe at this time people will receive their glorified body to go along with the new Earth. We are told in Heaven we do not actually have a physical body, only our spiritual body. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." (Rev 20:5)
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I am offering this as a possible understanding of what Isaiah is saying. This is written for the people that will be alive in that day so the meaning is not as clear for us in our generation. We know that at the time of Noah after the flood people were limited to 120 years. If people are living to be 80 now then there is a good chance this trend will continue and the day will arrive when average life expediency will be 100. My dad served our community as a pediatrician for over 50 years. He was very much a part of the vaccination program that has increased life expectancy as much as it has increased already. My guess is that 20% of the people would not be alive today if it were not for the vaccine program. So science is making considerable progress in this area.

At the end of the 1,000 year reign of Christ then there will be a new Heaven and a New Earth. I believe at this time people will receive their glorified body to go along with the new Earth. We are told in Heaven we do not actually have a physical body, only our spiritual body. "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." (Rev 20:5)

I agree, however, in the KINGDOM, I fully expect the 144,000 and their descendants to live as much as Adam and Seth.

Genesis 5:5-8 (NASB)
5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
6 Seth lived one hundred and five years, and became the father of Enosh.
7 Then Seth lived eight hundred and seven years after he became the father of Enosh, and he had other sons and daughters.
8 So all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years, and he died.

Yes, the Eternal State, (New Atmosphere and New Earth), is very hard in our finite Bodies. However, I can fully comprehend the 1000 Year Kingdom with JESUS on the Throne of David, with the EARTH being recreated in model of what once was the Garden of Eden.

Me Favorite Chapter about the end of man's rule on earth and the Christ's 1000 year Kingdom, is Zechariah Chapter 14.

My family, Men die much younger than normal, from heart attacks. I am already on 70 so the CLOCK IS TICKING.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Generally folks really don’t know what seeking first His Kingdom and His righteousness practically, daily, moment by moment means. Separation between us and the Shepherd creates anxiety.
And what does it mean since generally folks really do not know?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
what causes the anxiety ? i got it too. is it the extra leisure time then? what u think? not just you but everyone reading this
I myself am not the anxious type.... but you ask a good question.

There are many environmental factors, diet ... even gluten in bread can trigger anxiety and depression, genetics, brain chemistry, past emotional trauma.

I think the extreme individualism prevalent today does not help ... societies/communities that have a "we are in this together mentality" "social cohesion" ... seem to do better.

Apparently Finland ranked numero uno on the happiness scale. :)
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The matter of the homeless there is good to know. If I would have had 3M window sealer and an electric blanket I think I would have stayed in my room till spring. :LOL: I was not made for the cold. Blue is a favorite color, just not in my skin.
Too funny!!

Yes tis true .. some people do not tolerate the cold well.
 
Dec 30, 2019
1,266
290
83
the EARTH being recreated in model of what once was the Garden of Eden.
Eden was to expand and fill the earth and in a way Eden did. Men of Science have done a lot of study on how farming spread from the middle east to Europe. So the plants and animals from that bio diverse eco system spread to the rest of the world. This is why Noah had to build an arc. To save all the plants and animals that we read about in our Bible.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Solomon said there is nothing new under the sun and that time and chance happen unto all.........he also said that life sucks then you die (in so many words)
As in life has no meaning?

Maybe he was depressed...... could it have been all those wives etc., :unsure:
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
As in life has no meaning?

Maybe he was depressed...... could it have been all those wives etc., :unsure:
Haahahahaha Nooooooooo.....Vanity and vexation of spirit....this was his conclusion and trying and having everything.......in the end old age, misery, physical ailments and death....all the pleasure the world has to offer loses it's luster when "gold and silver" is nothing to be accounted of......all those wives hahah ;)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Eden was to expand and fill the earth and in a way Eden did. Men of Science have done a lot of study on how farming spread from the middle east to Europe. So the plants and animals from that bio diverse eco system spread to the rest of the world. This is why Noah had to build an arc. To save all the plants and animals that we read about in our Bible.
Plants? Where did God tell him to gather plants.......

And most miss....the garden EASTWARD in Eden....it was all paradise before the flood!
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

English Standard Version
he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

Berean Literal Bible
He saved us, not by works in righteousness that we did, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Salvation is maintained thru our Faith in the Source which is maintained thru our Works. Their is nothing in this this world that is obtained or maintained without work. To imply otherwise "and especially without context" seems to promote a level of lasciviousness and unaccountability.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Salvation is maintained thru our Faith in the Source which is maintained thru our Works. Their is nothing in this this world that is obtained or maintained without work. To imply otherwise "and especially without context" seems to promote a level of lasciviousness and unaccountability.
Are you saying works literally purchase salvation?
 

iymus

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2016
108
15
18
Are you saying works literally purchase salvation?
Their is nothing in this this world that is obtained or maintained without work.
Personally if someone preaches salvation void of the works of The Father, I would not believe them.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
-------------------------
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
------------------------

To imply otherwise "and especially without context" seems to promote a level of lasciviousness and unaccountability in my opinion.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Their is nothing in this this world that is obtained or maintained without work.
Personally if someone preaches salvation void of the works of The Father, I would not believe them.

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
-------------------------
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
------------------------

To imply otherwise "and especially without context" seems to promote a level of lasciviousness and unaccountability in my opinion.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Abraham did not do any actual work, he simply showed a willingness to obey God. That was sufficient.