Was it the wrath of God the Father that Jesus took on the cross?
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Jesus came to seek and save the lost. Who are the lost? The lost are any who do not know God. Who does not know God, and how did they come to not know Him, when Scripture says His handiwork makes Him known? The lost repress the knowledge of Truth due to their pride of life, and the lust of the eyes and flesh. The lost are perishing due to their unbelief, which makes them hostile toward and enemies of God. Are you familiar with this state of being? Do you understand the need to be regenerated, born again from above, of the Holy Spirit of God? Any without the indwelling of the Spirit of God at the end of this age will perish. Those who refuse to acknowledge the sovereignty of God are destroyed. Some call that wrath. I can see why when we read the OT. And yet the character of God is loving, just, and merciful as well. He understands us better than we understand ourselves, and desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
It was the wrath of men Jesus endured on the cross,
they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, Lk.4:28
they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, Lk.4:28
Finally he sent his son to them, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But when the tenants saw the son, they said to themselves, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and get his inheritance!' Mt.21:37-38
And they were filledwith madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus. Lk.6:11
Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and his anointed Ps.2:1-2
And they were filledwith madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus. Lk.6:11
Why do the nations conspire, and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD and his anointed Ps.2:1-2
Didn't Jesus get in our place and take the wrath that God has against sin? (still not sure who's wrath Jesus would be taking - see my last post)
Jesus took the wrath of God toward sin. As God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one God, surely the wrath Jesus took was from the entire God-head?
If it were only man's wrath Jesus bore, He need not have prayed "Father, if it is possible, may this cup pass from me".
2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
NayborBear
Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Why else would Jesus pray to the Father to "forgive them!" "For they don't know WHAT they are doing!"
No,
the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience Col.3:6 (If they don't repent).
Read my last post.
Some of them didn't know in crucifying Jesus they were sinning against God according to the scriptures.Why else would Jesus pray to the Father to "forgive them!" "For they don't know WHAT they are doing!"
When Jesus was on the cross he bore the burden of sin itself as well as God's wrath, in the fall of man we were sinful and thus no longer perfect as when he first created man but God still loved us however as you know he hates sin and thus there was a kind of rift between us and him so he needed a way to connect that rift and he did so in the most intimate way possible showing the depth of his love for us with his own son.
In this we live in a period of mercy and grace not wrath. This is not to say he does not have wrath but sin no longer has power over us and we can draw near to his heart in a way we couldn't in the old testament. But we also must remember he is like a lion and a lamb gentle kind but also not to be messed with, we cannot take advantage of his grace and do as we please but we also tend to sometimes be a bit to fearful when we screw up as well.
I knew a friend on here who was so afraid to recieve his wrath everytime she messed up she didin't understand his grace because she was raised in a belief system of judgment only taught how sin equels punishment she was afraid of God and didn't know his love. Honestly as far as his wrath goes I don't even like to imagine him like that even though I know he does have anger not because I am afraid but because I don't like tpo see him like that. I have only known his warmth and love in my time with him and I if I saw him in his anger and wrath knowing me I would likely try to soothe him like how you don't like to see someoene you love dearly upset and angry kind of way
In this we live in a period of mercy and grace not wrath. This is not to say he does not have wrath but sin no longer has power over us and we can draw near to his heart in a way we couldn't in the old testament. But we also must remember he is like a lion and a lamb gentle kind but also not to be messed with, we cannot take advantage of his grace and do as we please but we also tend to sometimes be a bit to fearful when we screw up as well.
I knew a friend on here who was so afraid to recieve his wrath everytime she messed up she didin't understand his grace because she was raised in a belief system of judgment only taught how sin equels punishment she was afraid of God and didn't know his love. Honestly as far as his wrath goes I don't even like to imagine him like that even though I know he does have anger not because I am afraid but because I don't like tpo see him like that. I have only known his warmth and love in my time with him and I if I saw him in his anger and wrath knowing me I would likely try to soothe him like how you don't like to see someoene you love dearly upset and angry kind of way
What was Jesus doing on the cross if He wasn't taking the wrath that God has towards sin?
Jesus was made sin for us wasn't He? God is wrathful toward sin, isn't He?
I might have meant all three Persons of the Trinity when I used God in this post (or maybe just the second time). If on the cross Jesus was taking the wrath that God has towards sin I'm not sure whose wrath it would be (which Person's wrath it would be out of the three Persons of the Trinity, or if it would be more than one Person's wrath).
Suffering wrongfully. Suffering for doing what is right 1Pet.2:20-21. Turning the other cheek, instead of destroying his enemies. Living what he taught.
The ungodly accused Jesus of being a sinner. Gods wrath is only poured on actual sinners.
Why else would Jesus pray to the Father to "forgive them!" "For they don't know WHAT they are doing!"
Jesus was putting all the Jews under the sin of ignorance, which under the Law of Moses, has a lesser penalty than otherwise. Leviticus 4.
That was how God the Father could give the Jews a one year extension period to accept his Son, which took place during early Acts.
Are you sure you aren't in error here? How could Jesus have been made sin for us (I'm correct that Jesus was made sin for us, right?) and not have taken the wrath of God for us (still not sure which Person, or Person's, wrath, out of the three Person's of the Trinity, Jesus would have been taking). Maybe someone else could chime in?
All are sinners, so God's wrath will be poured out on everyone. However, those who have faith in Christ are imputed Christ's righteousness, as God's wrath was poured out on Christ for our sins (He was made to be sin for us).
As it is "the wrath of God" toward sin, it makes sense to me this is the wrath of God the Son, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
Messed up in this post. Still not sure which Person's wrath out of the three Persons of the Trinity Jesus would be taking if He took the wrath of God for us. (or if it would be more than one Person's wrath) I guess it might be the Father's wrath and maybe Jesus' own wrath and also the Holy Spirit's wrath? Or maybe just the Father's wrath? I guess I don't know.
I'm sure the only ones seeing Jesus as sinful were the people who didn't know God.
we know that this man is a sinner. Jn.9:24
Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. Jn.8:19
the LORD hate:....hands that shed innocent blood, Pro.6:16-17
False witnesses against the Lord too.
Be careful on this topic, folks. Emergent Church Movement wants to deny penal substitutionary atonement.
There is a video on this called American Gospel: Christ Crucified.
The idea that Jesus served as a substitute and bore the wrath of God on the Cross is totally abhorrent to these individuals and they seek to discredit the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement.
Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, and others are part of this movement.
You can watch American Gospel: Christ Crucified on Vimeo for 4.95 or something like that. It's a newer Christian movie.
There is a video on this called American Gospel: Christ Crucified.
The idea that Jesus served as a substitute and bore the wrath of God on the Cross is totally abhorrent to these individuals and they seek to discredit the doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement.
Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, and others are part of this movement.
You can watch American Gospel: Christ Crucified on Vimeo for 4.95 or something like that. It's a newer Christian movie.