Two things God wants for you.

[KelbyofGod]

If Jesus paid for the sins of those that God gave him, then why would he tell them to be baptised to wash them away?

Because baptism is what God set up as the mechanism by which we become partakers of Jesus death. Per Romans 6:3,4:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3,4)

Verse 5 limits that right to be part of his resurrection to those who have been buried with him through baptism (using an if/then statement):

Romans 6:5-6 KJV
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Wansvic]

If Jesus paid for the sins of those that God gave him, then why would he tell them to be baptised to wash them away?

The blood of Jesus is WHAT makes it possible for everyone's sins to be washed away. God ordained water baptism is WHEN a person's sins are actually washed away. Without the shed blood of Jesus on Calvary no one's sin could ever be remitted.

 

[KelbyofGod]

The blood of Jesus is WHAT makes it possible for everyone's sins to be washed away. God ordained water baptism is WHEN a person's sins are actually washed away. Without the shed blood of Jesus on Calvary no one's sin could ever be remitted.

Exactly!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The blood of Jesus is WHAT makes it possible for everyone's sins to be washed away. God ordained water baptism is WHEN a person's sins are actually washed away. Without the shed blood of Jesus on Calvary no one's sin could ever be remitted.

The blood of Jesus on the cross, by himself, PURGED (Greek=extracted) our sins, Heb 1:3. By the shed blood on Calvary all of the sins of those that he died for were remitted.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Exactly!

Heb 1:3, says "by himself, he PURGED (extracted) our sins, not just made it possible.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Because baptism is what God set up as the mechanism by which we become partakers of Jesus death. Per Romans 6:3,4:

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (Romans 6:3,4)

Verse 5 limits that right to be part of his resurrection to those who have been buried with him through baptism (using an if/then statement):

Romans 6:5-6 KJV
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

1 Pet 3:20, Baptism is a like figure of Noah being saved from drowning, not saved eternally. Baptism is a commandment we are instructed to follow to show a good conscience toward God, and be saved from a guilty conscience, this verse does not reference eternal salvation. The Greek meaning of salvation = a deliverance. Baptism is a deliverance from a guilty conscience.

 

[Wansvic]

1 Pet 3:20, Baptism is a like figure of Noah being saved from drowning, not saved eternally. Baptism is a commandment we are instructed to follow to show a good conscience toward God, and be saved from a guilty conscience, this verse does not reference eternal salvation. The Greek meaning of salvation = a deliverance. Baptism is a deliverance from a guilty conscience.

The parallel between the flood and water baptism is that the flood water was the vehicle by which Noah and his family were saved, and at the same time the water cleansed the Earth of all sin.

Your interpretation does not make sense. Think about what you are implying. On one hand you say the term "saved" refers only to Noah and his family being saved from drowning. And, submitting to NT baptism is to save one from a guilty conscience.

Verse 21 states clearly that baptism now saves us. The NKJV makes it even clearer: "there is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism..." An antitype is the actual thing whereas the flood water is a foreshadow.


20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV


who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, " 1 Peter 3:20-21 NKJV

 

[John146]

The parallel between the flood and water baptism is that the flood water was the vehicle by which Noah and his family were saved, and at the same time the water cleansed the Earth of all sin.

Your interpretation does not make sense. Think about what you are implying. On one hand you say the term "saved" refers only to Noah and his family being saved from drowning. And, submitting to NT baptism is to save one from a guilty conscience.

Verse 21 states clearly that baptism now saves us. The NKJV makes it even clearer: "there is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism..." An antitype is the actual thing whereas the flood water is a foreshadow.


20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV


who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, " 1 Peter 3:20-21 NKJV

Notice, Noah and his family didn’t get wet.

 

[Wansvic]

Notice, Noah and his family didn’t get wet.

It is a foreshadow. Just as Jesus is not a menorah (the foreshadow); however, He IS the light of the world. (the real thing)

There are numerous Old Testament foreshadows of water baptism:

Noah believed and acted upon his belief by building an ark to the saving of his house. They were preserved and saved through water. During this event, water was the vehicle by which the Earth was cleansed of all sin.

Baby Moses was placed in an ark and floated to safety.

Moses parted the Red Sea and the children of Israel escaped from their enemies through water. Again, their sinful enemies were washed away in water.

Upon consecration into the priesthood; the candidate was to be washed head to toe in the tabernacle laver. This requirement parallels with New Testament water baptism wherein our sins are literally washed away. Afterward entrance into the tabernacle required just the washing of the hands and feet; this parallels ones need to be kept clean by daily washing away thoughts and actions from our lives after seeing the error of our ways in the Word of God.

Prior to Elijah be taken up in a whirlwind, he smote the Jordan with his mantle and the waters parted. He and Elisha went over on dry ground, immediately the chariot of fire appeared and he was taken up to Heaven in a whirlwind. We know that every recorded word in the Bible is there to broaden our understanding. Evidently, going through the water was necessary before Elijah could be taken to Heaven.

After lodging at the Jordan for three days, Joshua and the Israelites walked across the Jordan into the promised land. The Ark of the Covenant caused the water to rise up in a heap. A man from every tribe (12) left a stone of remembrance as evidence for all future generations of how God brought them into the promised land. Interestingly, twelve apostles were commanded to preach water baptism in the New Testament. It is also interesting to note, as well, that those present had to pass through water to get to the earthly promised land. How does this apply to our own entrance into the promised land of eternity? After passing over the Jordan, the Israelites were commanded to be circumcised at the hill of Gilgal. We see the connection between circumcision of the Old Testament and water baptism of the New Testament reflected in that single event.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The parallel between the flood and water baptism is that the flood water was the vehicle by which Noah and his family were saved, and at the same time the water cleansed the Earth of all sin.

Your interpretation does not make sense. Think about what you are implying. On one hand you say the term "saved" refers only to Noah and his family being saved from drowning. And, submitting to NT baptism is to save one from a guilty conscience.

Verse 21 states clearly that baptism now saves us. The NKJV makes it even clearer: "there is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism..." An antitype is the actual thing whereas the flood water is a foreshadow.


20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:20-21 KJV


who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us — baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, " 1 Peter 3:20-21 NKJV

It is no wonder that you are confused, because you are applying every scripture that has save, saved, salvation in it, to be eternal salvation. Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". We are delivered eternally and we receive many deliverances as we sojourn here in this world, the result of being delivered by baptism is one example of many. Rightly divide the word of truth. By not dividing the salvation scriptures, you will come up with the scriptures promoting eternal salvation caused by good works, instead of by God's grace.

 

[Wansvic]

It is no wonder that you are confused, because you are applying every scripture that has save, saved, salvation in it, to be eternal salvation. Salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance". We are delivered eternally and we receive many deliverances as we sojourn here in this world, the result of being delivered by baptism is one example of many. Rightly divide the word of truth. By not dividing the salvation scriptures, you will come up with the scriptures promoting eternal salvation caused by good works, instead of by God's grace.

God created the New Testament mandate that includes water baptism, etc. Being obedient to those instructions has nothing to do with one's own personal good works. They are two separate things.

 

[Josefnospam]

God doesnt want to give you a chance. God saves his people regardless of your actions or the things you do.
Give him all the honor and glory and rest from your works and trust in his finished work. he doesnt need your help.
He gives love and grace to his people who worship and thank him for his mighty works and tells others the truth.
WE worship a great God. His name is Jesus Christ and he is the way the life and the truth.

 

[bud62]

Hebrews 10:14-18
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Those laws that HE writes on our hearts are the TEN COMMANDMENTS , THE law of love , GOD BLESS as HE sees fit

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God created the New Testament mandate that includes water baptism, etc. Being obedient to those instructions has nothing to do with one's own personal good works. They are two separate things.

Anytime mankind has to act upon something in order to obtain eternal deliverance it would be eternal deliverance by works, and not eternal deliverance by God's grace.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hebrews 10:14-18
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Acts 10:43
To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”

Those who will receive remission of sins are limited to believers only. The natural man, 1 Cor 2:14, cannot believe in, or discern, the things of the Spirit until he has been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Eph 2. Only his sheep hear his voice and believe.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Those laws that HE writes on our hearts are the TEN COMMANDMENTS , THE law of love , GOD BLESS as HE sees fit

The Laws that God puts in our hearts and in our minds is not the ten commandments. The old law says "thou shall not commit adultery. The new law that is written in our hearts says "If you look upon another with adultery on your mind, you have already committed adultery."

 

[KelbyofGod]

The Laws that God puts in our hearts and in our minds is not the ten commandments. The old law says "thou shall not commit adultery. The new law that is written in our hearts says "If you look upon another with adultery on your mind, you have already committed adultery."

I was thinking similarly that Jesus said the two commandments upon which the law and prophets hang, are to love God with all thy heart, etc. (which could be claimed to be the first of the 10 commandments), and to love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[Wansvic]

Anytime mankind has to act upon something in order to obtain eternal deliverance it would be eternal deliverance by works, and not eternal deliverance by God's grace.

What about mankind's required belief and repentance? Are they not acts of obedience required by God?

 

[KelbyofGod]

Anytime mankind has to act upon something in order to obtain eternal deliverance it would be eternal deliverance by works, and not eternal deliverance by God's grace.

Hi FGC,
I think you err in thinking that actions need to be removed from salvation. Yet I'm not saying that our actions create, replace or are responsible for the benefits obtained by those actions. <--that is an important distinction that some find difficult to grasp.

It's like if my dad said "By my grace I've freely given you $1,000,000. I put it in your bank account this morning." I'll still have to write a check... or go to the bank to make a withdrawl..., or use my debit card... or something in order to actually receive the benefit. But that's not to be confused with creating the benefit. And certainly it's not taking the glory/credit/honor from the one who gave it (even though some try).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What about mankind's required belief and repentance? Are they not acts of obedience required by God?

Since you told me that you do not care anything about what Paul wrote to the church at Corinth, it will be difficult for you to understand my further attempts to explain, but I will attempt; The natural man in 1 Cor 2:14, will not repent of disobeying a spiritual law that he can not understand. The old heart of stone, (the natural man Ezk 36:26-27), before it is exchanged to a fleshy heart in the new birth, 2:3. The old heart, before being born again, cannot be pricked to feel guilty, and therefore, will not repent. The only person that will repent of breaking a spiritual law, is the person that has already been regenerated and given the fleshy heart.

Salvation, according to Greek means "a deliverance". There is a deliverance (salvation) in repenting, but it is not an eternal deliverance, because their eternal deliverance is secured already. Repenting (man's action) is a deliverance that we receive as we sojourn here in this world. This is why you will never understand the truth, unless you divide which salvation scriptures are referencing eternal deliverance, or a deliverance that we receive here in time. All scriptures nust harmonize before we can understand the truth. We cannot just ignore some of them, like you are doing with 1 Cor 2:14.