What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

[DeighAnn]

I would be careful not to make salvation "by chance" and not a "work of Christ's faith" as a "labor of his love".

He can save a baby yet in the womb whose name was written in the lambs of God book . You could saved from that foundation when God did work those 6 days. He rested on the 7th .Our Sabbath rest. He knows who are his . It would seem he revealed to David you can go to his child but he cannot come to us.

In the new heavens and earth the former things of this corrupted creation will not be remembered or ever come to mind.

There are no "chances" when it comes to Gods Eternal age. That is why we have the Millennium. A chance for those who never heard, never really got the chance, thought they were "worshipping God" but were in reality just being deceived by the deceivers.

My reply was to the post stating something about how once you die in the flesh your salvation is set forever. That just isn't true. God is just and that would not be justice to those who never got a chance to hear THE TRUTH of GODS WORD and they will for sure hear just that for the 1000yrs Satan is bound and the kings and priests of God set about the work of teaching for the Lords Day. Really the only reason for Satan to be let out at the end is so that they will have the same experiences, free to chose His way or the fire way. If they mess up then, then its lake of fire. Pass, and their immortality is bestowed and all that is left are those who truly love God. A really good plan actually. I can't hardly wait.

 

[DeighAnn]

If Jim or Plain would, I am curious as to how you answer these questions? If not, I completely understand.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
403 anapsuxis a recovery of breath, a refreshing
a cool refreshing; of the Messianic blessedness to be ushered in by the return of Christ from heaven
from anapsucho - properly, a recovery of breath, i.e. (figuratively)

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began
5550 time a particular time, season
605 apokatastasis - restoration
restitution, reestablishment, restoration
referring to the restoration of the physical earth in the Messianic kingdom (millennium)
the restoration not only of the true theocracy but also of that more perfect state of (even physical) things which existed before the fall
from 600 apokathistemi - to restore, give back
I set up again, restore to its original position or condition
properly, restore back to original standing, i.e. that existed before a fall
re-establish, returning back to the (ultimate) ideal (figuratively) restore back to full freedom (the liberty of the original standing); to enjoy again i.e. what was taken away by a destructive or life-dominating power
emphasizes separation from the former, negative influence to enjoy what is forwar (the restoration)


1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1 Corinthians 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Matthew 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So my question are if Christ returned from heaven, where is He now?
Is this the "restored earth" with only of the true theocracy but also of that more perfect state of (even physical) things which existed before the fall?
Was all prophecy fulfilled?
How is it I am flesh and blood yet flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God?
Why hasn't EVERYONE put on incorruption? How is it possible that when Christ returns ALL are changed, but we STILL have not?
If a "millennium" is a thousand years, then how are we still in it?

 

[DeighAnn]

Nahum 1:5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Nahum 1:6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Nahum 1:7 The LORD is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knoweth them that trust in him.

Nahum 1:8 But with an overrunning flood he will make an utter end of the place thereof, and darkness shall pursue his enemies.

Nahum 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.

Nahum 1:10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry.

Nahum 1:11 There is one come out of thee, that imagineth evil against the LORD, a wicked counsellor.

Nahum 1:12 Thus saith the LORD; Though they be quiet, and likewise many, yet thus shall they be cut down, when he shall pass through. Though I have afflicted thee, I will afflict thee no more.

Nahum 1:13 For now will I break his yoke from off thee, and will burst thy bonds in sunder.

Nahum 1:14 And the LORD hath given a commandment concerning thee, that no more of thy name be sown: out of the house of thy gods will I cut off the graven image and the molten image: I will make thy grave; for thou art vile.

Nahum 1:15 Behold upon the mountains the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace! O Judah, keep thy solemn feasts, perform thy vows: for the wicked shall no more pass through thee; he is utterly cut off.

Does it really seem as if he has been UTTERLY CUT OFF?

 

[iamsoandso]

What are your main issues with Preterism or what I call, In-Millennialism?

I was answering another poster in the post you quoted. As for ''main issues'' I would not describe what I said that way(issues with) what I do think is that similar to but opposite of dispensationism(pre trib. pre mill.) the devil will find you also easy prey.

Preterism in an attempt to explain that everything is fulfilled has no expectation of an man of sin,nor mark,image ect. and does not watch for those things unless you as an "in-millenialist" are on guard for when the devil is loosed a little season. So none who are of that camp will see him as an threat when he comes.

In the other camp they think that there is an man of sin coming and an GT ect. but not until after they are gone in the rapture so to them he cannot rise while they are here and the same as preterism have let their guard down and do not watch. So one says it's way in the past and cant happen to them and the other says it's way in the future and so their safe. That's the trap they are walking into it's "those guys way back in the past or those guys way in the future" just not today or now or us,,,,I know I know don't say bad things to us, say good things to us or we won't listen.

 

[iamsoandso]

Actually, the deadly wound happened when Nero stabbed himself in the neck and died. Rome was thrown into a brutal and bloody 3 way civil war which plunged the empire into darkness. It was healed in Dec 69 AD when Vespasian was declared Emperor. Vespasian was the 7th head of the Roman Beast.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV If Nero is the sixth(one is) then he cannot be the eight(was and is not ect.) see Revelation 17:8-11...

 

[DeighAnn]

In the other camp they think that there is an man of sin coming and an GT ect. but not until after they are gone in the rapture so to them he cannot rise while they are here and the same as preterism have let their guard down and do not watch. So one says it's way in the past and cant happen to them and the other says it's way in the future and so their safe. That's the trap they are walking into it's "those guys way back in the past or those guys way in the future" just not today or now or us,,,,I know I know don't say bad things to us, say good things to us or we won't listen.

Ok, what am I. I believe we are in the final generation. 2068 if it is a 120 year generation would be the last possible date Satan would get kicked out of heaven unless the 1000 yr generation of the beginning is what "a generation" is referring to.

The only things I am waiting for is the 4 hidden dynasties to become a reality, getting pretty close. Then one of the heads of the One world political system will get damn near killed (deadly wound) throwing the world into a bit of a panic and "presto change o" here comes "the fixer"... at the end of that hour, Satan kills the two witnesses, 3 1/2 days later Christ comes, we are changed, Lords Day begins.

So what am I considered to be?

 

[iamsoandso]

"Your watching"(unlike the others) you don't see everything fulfilled in the past and so then are watching. So you think that some things were fulfilled and others continued being fulfilled and some are in the midst of fulfillment and some will be in the future at the same time. Look at it this way Pre trib and Preterism would tell you not to worry that it was in the past or else you wont be here when it happens. Don't do that keep watch.

In Isaiah 46:10 God says he told you in the beginning https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+46:10&version=KJV .

In Genesis 2:4 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm It tells you that these are the "generations of the Heavens and earth".

In Genesis 2:4 ,,,is the word #8435 https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8435.htm "Generation"

in Matthew 24:3 one of the questions they ask was https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm "and the consumption(end) of the age",,age of time/generation(Gen.2:4)...

So he answered what they ask one by one and in Matthew 24:34 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-34.htm said that the generation/age of time would not end until all the things he told them were fulfilled.

In 2 Peter 3:8 these same days(Yowm) https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3117.htm "days/day/age" toledoth,generation ect. from Genesis 2:4 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/3.htm

So Jesus is giving a direct answer to "when the age would end"(Matt.24:3) in Matthew 24:24 that is he is speaking of an age/generation of time but you are thinking he means a generation like the 50's(the hop),60's(hippies),,70's,80's ect. he's not he is thinking Genesis 2:4 and the generations of the heavens and the earth, day 1,2,3,4,5,6,Mill./7 just like all the Jews were. This is why in the Hebrew calendar it is 13 Tevet, 5780 (counting off six one thousand year days and awaiting the 7th rest) because "six days thou shalt labor and on the seventh rest..."(in short Genesis 1:1-Genesis 2:4 is a prophecy from the beginning to it's end).

 

[iamsoandso]

@DeighAnn In post #1247 I tried to answer you but somehow missed the reply button or something(old man symptoms I think.)

 

[iamsoandso]

Ok, what am I. I believe we are in the final generation. 2068 if it is a 120 year generation would be the last possible date Satan would get kicked out of heaven unless the 1000 yr generation of the beginning is what "a generation" is referring to.

The only things I am waiting for is the 4 hidden dynasties to become a reality, getting pretty close. Then one of the heads of the One world political system will get damn near killed (deadly wound) throwing the world into a bit of a panic and "presto change o" here comes "the fixer"... at the end of that hour, Satan kills the two witnesses, 3 1/2 days later Christ comes, we are changed, Lords Day begins.

So what am I considered to be?

In your last paragraph carnal Israel received a deadly wound in ad70, It was in the pit in Revelation 17:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-8.htm and it ascended up out of the pit in 1948 when the earth said "let us make an image of the beast...ect." it's not suppose to be there but they put it there anyway(you are the temple of God) and the man of sin is going to rise in it. That's why it is the eight and "of the seven"....

The MoS rises first and then Jesus returns and removes his kingdom...."in that order".

 

[GaryA]

Okay, no problem. But just know you're adding that and it's not what any rational person standing there listening to Him would have thought He meant, and to be honest what you're saying makes no sense in the context He is saying it in. He says
"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened".
So what you're saying it means is "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have begun to happened"

That makes "0" sense at all. To me. The parallel verse in Matthew makes it even worse.
Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!

Here He is saying these things will come on THIS generation, then goes on to let us know is was going to happen soon and in Jerusalem, not in 2,000 years in the USA. These words were not directed at you, they are to you, but when Jesus spoke He was not looking into our eyes when He said it. It wasn't to us in the way you're trying to make it. We don't get to "retcon" God's word like this to make it apply to us.

I don't think you fully understand what I am saying. Yes - those things (certain things) did in fact come upon that generation. I am not disputing that. I agree with it. What I am saying is:

~ The actual [original] 'greek' meaning of the words indicates 'beginning-and-continuing' with regard to the statement made.

Olivet Discourse and Revelation prophecy has been unfolding over the past ~2000 years. It did not ALL occur circa 70 A.D. (much of it, but not all). It is not ALL going to occur in the future (much of it has surely already happened). The truth is between these two extremes.

~ Olivet Discourse and Revelation prophecy is long-term prophecy concerning Christians and the whole world - not [just] short-term prophecy concerning the Jews (Israel).

Are the Jews (Israel) and the events circa 70 A.D. included in that prophecy? Absolutely! There can be no doubt.

However, 100% of the prophecy did not [ALL] occur circa 70 A.D. - some of it is past - some of it is future. And, it is not just about the Jews.

~ The prophecy actually starts before the events circa 70 A.D. - and, continues until a time in our future.

It certainly includes the events of that time, but is not entirely about the events of that time.

Borrowing from your words above - it is about THAT generation as well as 2000 years later in the USA (and the whole world).

~~~

If a person is going to believe that the Bible means what it says, they cannot "spiritualize" 100% of its prophecy. Because, much of it is truly on a world-wide scale and 'literal'. It is not ALL symbolic.

There will really actually be a 1000-year reign of Christ on the Earth. It cannot be "spiritualized" away as symbolic. It will literally occur.

Jesus is not on HIS throne at this time. Rather, He is at the Father's side on HIS throne (the Father's throne).

The throne of Jesus will [literally] be on the Earth (in the future).

He is not currently "ruling and reigning" over the Earth.

But, He will literally do so for 1000 years with a literal 'physical' kingdom on the Earth.

To say that Olivet Discourse and Revelation prophecy is only about the events circa 70 A.D. is like saying the Flood was [only] a 'local' event.

 

[GaryA]

He says
"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened".
So what you're saying it means is "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have begun to happened"

What I am saying is that - according to the Greek - He actually said (using your words) "until all these things have begun to happen"...

 

[PlainWord]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV If Nero is the sixth(one is) then he cannot be the eight(was and is not ect.) see Revelation 17:8-11...

Nero was 6th. The 7th was Vespasian. The 8th was his son, Titus, who was of the 7th and the 7.

And I saw a beast (ROMAN EMPIRE) rising up out of the sea (GENTILE NATIONS), having seven heads (KINGS/CEASARS) and ten horns (LEADERS/GENERALS), and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name (The Caesars of Rome were often greeted and venerated with divine titles. Roman coins were imprinted with the head of the reigning emperor. Sometimes, as was the case with Augustus, these coins were imprinted with the title Divi F, that is Divi Filius or the Son of God. Caesar was also worshiped in temples of the imperial cult. Inscriptions found in Ephesus label Nero Caesar “Almighty God” and “Saviour” and another inscription found in Salamis gave him the title “God and Saviour). 2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion (John borrowing from Daniel 7 stating that Rome would have all the elements of, and encompassing the territory of, the 3 previous world empires). The dragon (Satan) gave him his power, his throne, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded (NERO who slabbed himself in the neck), and his deadly wound was healed (When Vespasian ended the civil war and restored order to the empire. The Julian-Claudio Dynasty died with Nero and the empire entered a year long brutal civil war. It was resurrected with the Flavian Dynasty under Vespasian in Dec 69 AD. At this time Vespasian ordered his son, Titus, to finish off the Jews). And all the (known) world (ROMAN EMPIRE) marveled and followed the beast. 4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast (In 1 Corinthians 10:20, Paul asserts that sacrifices made to idols are considered offerings to demons. According to Revelation 13:4 and 1 Corinthians 10:20, the act of emperor worship is ultimately directed toward the devil, the presumed source of the emperor’s power.), saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

Indeed, who was able to make war with Rome of the 1st century? With wars in Gaul and Judea and civil war within, Rome seemed to be attacked on all sides. When Vespasian seized the throne all resistance was obliterated; and for a moment, Rome seemed invincible. At this time, Jerusalem fell. And Titus, the new general of the Jewish War, brought the Roman ensigns to the temple in Jerusalem and offered sacrifices to them.

 

[Absolutely]

In your last paragraph carnal Israel received a deadly wound in ad70, It was in the pit in Revelation 17:8 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17-8.htm and it ascended up out of the pit in 1948 when the earth said "let us make an image of the beast...ect." it's not suppose to be there but they put it there anyway(you are the temple of God) and the man of sin is going to rise in it. That's why it is the eight and "of the seven"....

The MoS rises first and then Jesus returns and removes his kingdom...."in that order".

The rapture is of the bride.

Completely separatee issue.
(biblically supported as pretrib...and easily defended)

Rev 14 has a gathering also...during the gt ...completely separate from the dynamics you brought forward.

 

[Absolutely]

@DeighAnn In post #1247 I tried to answer you but somehow missed the reply button or something(old man symptoms I think.)

Is that what it is?
I thought it was just my dislexia lol

 

[Absolutely]

There are no "chances" when it comes to Gods Eternal age. That is why we have the Millennium. A chance for those who never heard, never really got the chance, thought they were "worshipping God" but were in reality just being deceived by the deceivers.

My reply was to the post stating something about how once you die in the flesh your salvation is set forever. That just isn't true. God is just and that would not be justice to those who never got a chance to hear THE TRUTH of GODS WORD and they will for sure hear just that for the 1000yrs Satan is bound and the kings and priests of God set about the work of teaching for the Lords Day. Really the only reason for Satan to be let out at the end is so that they will have the same experiences, free to chose His way or the fire way. If they mess up then, then its lake of fire. Pass, and their immortality is bestowed and all that is left are those who truly love God. A really good plan actually. I can't hardly wait.

It says aftet the mil "the rest of thr dead" (not in the 1st res pretrib...the dead in christ) are resurrected and judged.

 

[PlainWord]

Okay, no problem. But just know you're adding that and it's not what any rational person standing there listening to Him would have thought He meant, and to be honest what you're saying makes no sense in the context He is saying it in. He says
"Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened".
So what you're saying it means is "Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have begun to happened"

That makes "0" sense at all. To me. The parallel verse in Matthew makes it even worse.
Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!

Here He is saying these things will come on THIS generation, then goes on to let us know is was going to happen soon and in Jerusalem, not in 2,000 years in the USA. These words were not directed at you, they are to you, but when Jesus spoke He was not looking into our eyes when He said it. It wasn't to us in the way you're trying to make it. We don't get to "retcon" God's word like this to make it apply to us.

I couldn't agree more. Starting with Moses in Deut 28, with Israel not even a nation with a home, God tells Moses how the nation will end and describes the events of 70 AD to a tee. The OT prophets repeatedly warned Israel about the implications their disobedience and unfaithfulness would have on them - the pending Babylonian exile and destruction of Jerusalem. The OT prophets could care less about our future. Some foretold of the end to that exile, return to their land then the next desolation which occurred in 70 AD. Many of these OT prophets were put to death because they dared confront the wicked people of their day.

In the NT, JTB was the first to speak of the pending second desolation before Christ came on the scene as we see in Mat 3. Then Jesus comes on the scene and He picked up where JTB left off. Throughout His ministry He warned the wicked religious leaders of His day what would befall them and their city and temple (Lk 19, Mat 23-24, etc). Both Peter and Paul pick up the theme of pending disaster throughout their writings. NOWHERE and I mean NOWHERE do any of them speak of a massive 2,000+ year gap to our future and some far off disaster. Their world, as they knew it, was about to come to a devastating end where 93% of their population would die the most horrific deaths. Their temple, their city would be completely destroyed and wiped of the map. By the time Paul was writing, the 70 AD events were less than 18 years away!!! Who can possibly believe he would make no mention of his immediate future and instead focus on ours? This defies all logic.

People of Paul's day could care less about the year 2020 and events of our future given the monumental events their people would soon witness. When the NT is read in the context I just outlined, everything makes sense and harmonizes. There isn't one thing that doesn't. Hat's off to you JimBone for having the wisdom you do.

 

[Absolutely]

Actually, the deadly wound happened when Nero stabbed himself in the neck and died. Rome was thrown into a brutal and bloody 3 way civil war which plunged the empire into darkness. It was healed in Dec 69 AD when Vespasian was declared Emperor. Vespasian was the 7th head of the Roman Beast.

Interesting.

Is that from the same book that says the flying scorpions are crossbows?

 

[Absolutely]

If you believe in the rapture it would do you some good to study Jeremiah 4:17 - 29 . AND HE dose slay all the wicked here & it's plain . & even in Mattew it says that the wicked is gathered first then the righteous . Matthew 13:30 , The ones that are taken are dead upon the ground ,for food . GOD BLESS AS HE sees fit

Nope
It does not say that

 

[Absolutely]

I couldn't agree more. Starting with Moses in Deut 28, with Israel not even a nation with a home, God tells Moses how the nation will end and describes the events of 70 AD to a tee. The OT prophets repeatedly warned Israel about the implications their disobedience and unfaithfulness would have on them - the pending Babylonian exile and destruction of Jerusalem. The OT prophets could care less about our future. Some foretold of the end to that exile, return to their land then the next desolation which occurred in 70 AD. Many of these OT prophets were put to death because they dared confront the wicked people of their day.

In the NT, JTB was the first to speak of the pending second desolation before Christ came on the scene as we see in Mat 3. Then Jesus comes on the scene and He picked up where JTB left off. Throughout His ministry He warned the wicked religious leaders of His day what would befall them and their city and temple (Lk 19, Mat 23-24, etc). Both Peter and Paul pick up the theme of pending disaster throughout their writings. NOWHERE and I mean NOWHERE do any of them speak of a massive 2,000+ year gap to our future and some far off disaster. Their world, as they knew it, was about to come to a devastating end where 93% of their population would die the most horrific deaths. Their temple, their city would be completely destroyed and wiped of the map. By the time Paul was writing, the 70 AD events were less than 18 years away!!! Who can possibly believe he would make no mention of his immediate future and instead focus on ours? This defies all logic.

People of Paul's day could care less about the year 2020 and events of our future given the monumental events their people would soon witness. When the NT is read in the context I just outlined, everything makes sense and harmonizes. There isn't one thing that doesn't. Hat's off to you JimBone for having the wisdom you do.

Nope
The flying scorpions and hailstones of fire as well as oceans turning to blood would have been recorded.

You guys get silly trying to make that stuff fit.

Besides that rev was written around 90 ad

No matter how you slice it ,historicist view is poorly thought out.

To top it off,israel becoming a nation is a real stick in the side.

Historicist view must also reframe that no brainer as well.

 

[PlainWord]

DeighAnn

Happy to help. Let's take one topic at a time.

In Acts 2, Peter invokes Joel and confirms that in the last days the holy spirit would be poured out on all flesh. This literally just happened to them. In the Acts 3 passage, Peter is discussing that they are truly in the last days (of his country), again as foretold by all the OT prophets. Christ ascended back to heaven but His presence would soon return. Anyone not believing in Christ upon His return, "shall be utterly destroyed from among the people" which they were.

The "refreshing" of Acts 3 is defined by the last two verses.

25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

Jesus redeemed the patriarchs from Hades and blessed His believers who were still alive when He returned approx 40 years after He left. To understand the magnitude of the refreshing, we must go back to the garden and the original sin and look at the full scope of the punishment. Yes, the land was cursed and the woman would bear children in pain. But there were much bigger consequences.

Gen 3:

Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.” ... 22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

The "Tree of Life" is symbolic of Christ. The "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" represents Satan. Notice from Gen 2:9 that both were already in the garden. Then notice this from Gen 2:17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” But they didn't die that day, did they? Therefore God was speaking of spiritual death, not physical death. Spiritual death is defined as being absent from the Lord where spiritual life is being present with the Lord. Thus in Gen 3:24 God separates Adam and Eve from the Tree of Life (Christ) and Himself as we never read of Him walking with them again.

On the Cross, Christ paved the way to restore us to Him. Remember what He told the thief on the Cross? Paradise was the good side of Hades. Upon His death, Christ was in Paradise, within Hades, with the thief and everyone else who had died. Christ defeated Hades by resurrecting out of it. When His presence returned circa 66-67 AD, He freed the rest of the captives in Hades. This was the first resurrection. When we die we don't go to Hades anymore. Our connection to God and Heaven has been restored. Rev 21:24-27 paint a picture of heaven always being open and the saved are continuously entering it (upon death). Revelation 22 tells us the Christ is the Tree of Life which bore 12 fruits (the 12 disciples) one for each month.

The refreshing = Our restoration to God (all 3 parts).