Not By Works

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I know....I laughed out loud when I read that......He got miffed at me because I reported one working for clown for constantly accusing me and making very derogatory remarks which got him banned....man the wool is coming off the eyes.....hey!
Who got banned?
 
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Read that verse in context... it is a reference to the old covenant.

By stating that no sacrifice for sin is left in Hebrews 10:26, the author of Hebrews is making a very similar point to that made in Hebrews 6, namely, that the Hebrew Christians came to recognize that the Levitical sacrificial system did not grant them eternal life or forgiveness of sins. This came only through Jesus.
Hebrews recognises the sacrificial system worked, but as a shadow or representative of Christs sacrifice for sins.
Eternal life was in the relationship with the Father by faith, but was often distant, behind the curtain of the Holy of Hollies.

Eternal life was now clear and fully revealed through Jesus and the indwelling Holy Spirit, the cornerstone had arrived, the shadow was gone.

Israel was always the beginning of drawing all men to the Father, fulfilled by Jesus at the end.
The pharisees were the legalised fulfilment of obedience and highlighting its problems and hypocrisy.

Heb 10:13-14
Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
O

Obviously it is all God or fraudulent.....translate that verse......and in the context given.....it heavely implies that the only work God requires is belief.
It not a work.

its the work of God

not of works, lest anyone should boast.

zero zip nada works save,

the net result of that faith and being born again, will result is some form of works. If one flames to have faith (claimed to be saved) yet has zero zip nada works, his faith was dead. Did that faith save him?

no.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It not a work.

its the work of God

not of works, lest anyone should boast.

zero zip nada works save,

the net result of that faith and being born again, will result is some form of works. If one flames to have faith (claimed to be saved) yet has zero zip nada works, his faith was dead. Did that faith save him?

no.
Obviously....it is a contradictory statement...almost sarcastic....like me saying...the only work God requires is faith....I.E. NO WORKS save.....only faith
 
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Make straight the pathnof Israel....go back to the drawing board man.......his ministry was connected to Jesus and he did not peddle baptismal regeneration and or a works based ideology.....He prepared the WAY FOR JESUS not ISRAEL!
Matt 3:3
A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.'

John 1:33
'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptise with the Holy Spirit'

Part of walking with Jesus is baptism with water for the remission of sins, with the filling of the Holy Spirit.
Repentance is key, John was declaring the Kingdom was coming, get ready, sort your lives out, make them
straight. Jesus and the cross, the tearing of the curtain, the coming of the Holy Spirit into peoples lives was
the Kingdom come to earth.

Being righteous is not enough, it is not salvation, just the opportunity to know Gods heart and to begin
a relationship with Him. The relationship is salvation, eternal life, life that is forever, that goes beyond
anything else we can experience.

John was unique.
Luke 1:15
he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

Making our paths straight is the only was we can begin this walk, repentance, cleansing.
Miss this and you miss the Kingdom, eternally.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You already know my answers to that question migo.....I have clearly stated teo things about sin in a believer...

a. That John speaks to a continual lifestyle of sin in a believer
yeah he says they can not live this way, because they are born of God. That is one of the fruits of faith and salvation (works james speaks of)

b. No believer is without sin
Amen

c. Believers are positioned in grace which out bounds our sin
. again, amen, we can not live up to Gods standard anyway (perfection)

d. NO SIN causes the loss of salvation.
Amen

e. NO WORKS prove salvation because LOST MEN do many WONDERUL works in the name of a cause or even Jesus daily
. I disagree, lost men can do no works, even the works they do are in sin, I think our definitions of works are not on par with each other, works produce fruit. A non believer is unable to produce fruit

f. No saved man produces fruit or works.....It is JESUS in us and through us that produces the fruit and or works and exactly why all glory goes to God
. amen again, that’s why james said if a man has zero zip nada works his faith is dead. Can that faith save? NO

and regardless.....we cannot ALLEVIATE....to the one who DOES NO WORK, but believes on him that JUSTIFIES the ungodly HIS FAITH IS CREDITED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS.....
Amen, but this is pre salvation

works of wood, hay and stubble burnt yet saved so as by fire indicates NO GOOD WORKS yet saved.....
wrong, it indicates they either had few works which really produced little fruit.or they remained babes in christ, and although they did the work of no longer living in sin, they probably came to church and were quiet people who really did nothing, that’s if they came at all.

if they had no work, they continued to live in sin, their faith was dead and they were never saved.

again, saying a person can be saved with no works of faith is feeding the workers. I will not bless that thinking
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The use of the word THAT is pointed at which type of faith....a MERE belief in GOD just as the demons have....and the JEWS to this day still have the same problem.....MANY BELIEVE in God, but have no faith into CHRIST.......and that is the contrast of James.....regardless.....We cannot contradict James against Romans.....Paul is clear...faith is what justifies a man BEFORE God without the DEEDS/WORKS OF THE LAW
Many non Jews have the same faith

most Jews (at least religious jews] are more of the pharisee type, Paul wrote of them in his epistles. Fighting salvation by works. In fact, I know of no licentious jew. And I have known many many lifetime.

yet I can probably name quite a few people who claim to be christian, but they continue to live as the world does.and I would not more think they are christian than the legalistic jew or christian trying to be saved by works,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I would not say can't but should'nt.......and let me qualify....

God only whips children....why does he whip them.....because they are disobedient <--is disobedience sin? He will chasten a child to correct a child that is indeed in sin (disobedience) and WILL EVEN take one HOME EARLY if they refuse correction......You and I have both at one time WALKED CONTRARY AND IN SIN after salvation and like the prodigal WE CAME BACK....but while we were contrary we were indeed living in sin!
John said can’t

i will go with John on this one

once again miso, we are not talking about prodigal children or our person sin,we are talking about a lifestyle of unrighteousness, those who live in continual self centered self focused. I have a hole in my heart and I need to fill it, so I will fill it my way instead of letting God full it for me

to those saved, God already filled that whole, so they no longer need that hoe filled. Thus no longer need to sin, Ie, they do not live in sin.


a baby will have more sin than a mature believer,even so, that baby will not live on sin.they can
they have been born of God

1. the hole in their heart of filled to excess (rivers of living water)
2. They are new creatures, sin is poison to them, like righteousness is poison to a non believer
3. they chastened by God

these are just three reasons why they cant

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Bro....you know I consider you a brother and love you in the truth, but we cannot alleviate the audience that is being addressed and the root cause of their issue....12 tribes scattered abroad...JEWS and the same issue they have to this day...a MERE belief in God......there does seem to be a blend of believers and unbelievers within the scope of the letter because he speaks to the trial of their FAITH......WHAT work did they have? And how does that work have any bearing on being saved wholly by faith?
I love you as a brother too

the root cause of their issue was licentiousness

they are not the legalistic jews paul condemned.
theynare what Jude called peiple who turn the grace of God to licentiousness. james is warning these people to test their own faith, is it dead, did it save, or are you still lost.

they claimed to have faith, but had no works

theyndid the opposite of many other Jews.who tried to add works to salvation. They found freedom from law. And took it and went crazy and thought because they made a profession of faith they were saved and they could now live however they want.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Bro....you know I consider you a brother and love you in the truth, but we cannot alleviate the audience that is being addressed and the root cause of their issue....12 tribes scattered abroad...JEWS and the same issue they have to this day...a MERE belief in God......there does seem to be a blend of believers and unbelievers within the scope of the letter because he speaks to the trial of their FAITH......WHAT work did they have? And how does that work have any bearing on being saved wholly by faith?
again, as I have said

paul said abraham was saved by faith, but we see, even though abraham had a lot of sin, he also had works.

james is saying if you claim to have this faith, but you have zero zip nada works. (Unlike Abraham) can that type of faith save you?

how can a dead lifeless faith save a person? It can‘t
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
While I am at it

James is also not telling people that a lack of works will cause loss of salvation. So the worker giving me all these likes. I am not on your side.

that’s the problem with true grace salvation. The workers call you licentious, the licentious call you legalist
 
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again, as I have said

paul said abraham was saved by faith, but we see, even though abraham had a lot of sin, he also had works.

james is saying if you claim to have this faith, but you have zero zip nada works. (Unlike Abraham) can that type of faith save you?

how can a dead lifeless faith save a person? It can‘t
1 Peter 1:8-9
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Rom 2:9-11
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honour and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
For God does not show favouritism.

What is Gods attitude to man?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:11-12
what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

The straight path is our calling because we love Jesus.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
1 Peter 1:8-9
Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Rom 2:9-11
There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile;
but glory, honour and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.
For God does not show favouritism.

What is Gods attitude to man?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:11-12
what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.

The straight path is our calling because we love Jesus.
This has nothing to do with james
 
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This has nothing to do with james
James is talking about the imperishable seed will always show itself, else it is dead.

James 2:20
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

Can we choose the fruit of the imperishable seed? No.

James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 3:13
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.

James calls these unbelievers to repentance and faith.

James 4:8-10
Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

So this letter is written to those who claim to know Jesus, some of whom do and some clearly do not.

James 5:19-20
My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back,
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

The warning is some are lost sinners, who are in spiritual death and end in judgement.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

lets start with this verse. lets restart the conversation at page 6115. this say that once you believe you have everlasting life, but not only that, you also wont be coming into judgment and have passed from death into life.

if anyone believes but then is coming to judgment and goes back to death how can this verse even be true?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

lets start with this verse. lets restart the conversation at page 6115. this say that once you believe you have everlasting life, but not only that, you also wont be coming into judgment and have passed from death into life.

if anyone believes but then is coming to judgment and goes back to death how can this verse even be true?
Of course, they do, until for example they blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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I love the sound of distant train whistles in the morning, especially when reading Scripture and enjoying a good cup of coffee. 🚂 ☕️
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Of course, they do, until for example they blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
so how can john 5:24 be true then? they didnt really "not come into judgment" in your view?

just seems like the NOSAS salvation plan really sucks hard. you are always just shaken to the core never knowing you are saved in constant anxiety and fear because its all based on your performance so once you sin you think oh no am i still saved and either you try harder next time or you just fall deeper into sin thinking i lost my salvation anyway.

i will keep my eternal security thanks much. i know from experience what works salvation is, no peace and i see so many christians around me in that same state miserable people.


i wish we would all read the bible the same way. its a big book so you can make the bible say whatever you want it to say really