Is being a believer mandatory, but being a disciple, optional?

[MahogonySnail]

Is being a believer mandatory, but being a disciple, optional?

A belief I've come across sometimes talking to other Christians, is that everyone must believe in Christ to be saved, but being a disciple is something we can choose to do that may result in greater rewards etc. They usually reference the fact that not everyone who believed in Christ actually walked with Him or was a member of his party. Of course we know that Jesus had many more disciples than just his 12 closest, and crowds followed Him, but there were also others who believed in Him yet were too afraid to be a disciple , or perhaps too busy, or things like that.

The other belief, which is the one I'm used to and the one I personally agree with the most, is that being a believer and disciple is the same thing, we can't believe in Christ without being His disciple.

I believe a disciple is simply someone who learns. So another way to express this question might be, can we still believe in Christ, without actually learning from Him?

What are your thoughts and does scripture support either view ?

 

[ThereIsHope]

Yes there is scripture evidence about following Jesus and being HIS disciple:

Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
Luke 4:33

Matthew 28: 19 is another good one couldn't get it to copy and paste so you'll have to look it up.

Blessings, Hope

 

[thefightinglamb]

I can almost post this question as a different thread...but it is almost the same thing stated differently...

A lot of Christians believe there are different levels of Christians...I do not believe in this...to me I believe as Paul writes theat Christ is all in all to those who believe, and also everything is yours, but you are Christ's, and you are bought with a price...summarizing a lot of verses there but anyway...

I met an Irish guy today somewhat near the beach, I was sitting on a sidewalk, and I met this man who says that he does believe but he isn't a Christian....I really don't know how to interprit that one...

I also have met people that think a Christian is just someone who gets saved (not trying to offend here, just keep reading, I am not saying that YOU whoever you are reading believe this), and thus afterwards Christians have a large range of options about how to live out that faith--that is they can truly give Christ everything, or they can still be a Christian and yet not seek to follow the Lord as closely as others do...

To me I think when you accept Christ truly all becomes Christ, if you take refuge in him, and there is no levels...no Christian is ever spiritually higher or lower than anyone else...true experience and wisdom of older Christians should be respected and when not contradicting what the Lord speaks to you and the Word it should be heeded, but otherwise we are all put on the same level as Christians in this world...and what some would consider the higher Christians are what the worldly would call lower...Our leaders are to lead because they can serve us all and not because of a will-to-power, arrogance or pride...But our leaders kind of should be the ones that clean our toilets--this is an analogy to a spiritual truth...

Anyway, levels of Christians also confuse me...

God bless all who love the Lord with light, love, and grace

tony the lesser

 

[Thaddaeus]

I can almost post this question as a different thread...but it is almost the same thing stated differently...

A lot of Christians believe there are different levels of Christians...I do not believe in this...to me I believe as Paul writes theat Christ is all in all to those who believe, and also everything is yours, but you are Christ's, and you are bought with a price...summarizing a lot of verses there but anyway...

I met an Irish guy today somewhat near the beach, I was sitting on a sidewalk, and I met this man who says that he does believe but he isn't a Christian....I really don't know how to interprit that one...

I also have met people that think a Christian is just someone who gets saved (not trying to offend here, just keep reading, I am not saying that YOU whoever you are reading believe this), and thus afterwards Christians have a large range of options about how to live out that faith--that is they can truly give Christ everything, or they can still be a Christian and yet not seek to follow the Lord as closely as others do...

To me I think when you accept Christ truly all becomes Christ, if you take refuge in him, and there is no levels...no Christian is ever spiritually higher or lower than anyone else...true experience and wisdom of older Christians should be respected and when not contradicting what the Lord speaks to you and the Word it should be heeded, but otherwise we are all put on the same level as Christians in this world...and what some would consider the higher Christians are what the worldly would call lower...Our leaders are to lead because they can serve us all and not because of a will-to-power, arrogance or pride...But our leaders kind of should be the ones that clean our toilets--this is an analogy to a spiritual truth...

Anyway, levels of Christians also confuse me...

God bless all who love the Lord with light, love, and grace

tony the lesser

I don't mean to seem rude here But this is crazy, our walk with Christ is like our growth in our physical body. the Bible clearly says that some are babes still on milk and some are on meat. The Bible itself is a living word. the more we read, the more we grow in spiritual maturity, we see scriptures more clearly more deeply with each time we read, if you were saved 5 years ago and you are on the same level now, your walk with Christ is stalled. paul said to press toward the mark, also compared it as running a race.

1co 9:24Know ye not that they which run in a RACE run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Is being a believer mandatory, but being a disciple, optional?

A belief I've come across sometimes talking to other Christians, is that everyone must believe in Christ to be saved, but being a disciple is something we can choose to do that may result in greater rewards etc. They usually reference the fact that not everyone who believed in Christ actually walked with Him or was a member of his party. Of course we know that Jesus had many more disciples than just his 12 closest, and crowds followed Him, but there were also others who believed in Him yet were too afraid to be a disciple , or perhaps too busy, or things like that.

The other belief, which is the one I'm used to and the one I personally agree with the most, is that being a believer and disciple is the same thing, we can't believe in Christ without being His disciple.

I believe a disciple is simply someone who learns. So another way to express this question might be, can we still believe in Christ, without actually learning from Him?

What are your thoughts and does scripture support either view ?

"A belief I've come across sometimes talking to other Christians, is that everyone must believe in Christ to be saved, but being a disciple is something we can choose to do that may result in greater rewards etc."

I believe that rewards program is a true Bibical doctrine :
Heb 11:6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a REWARDER of them that diligently seek him.



1co 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1co 3:14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

salvation is a gift something given but not earned,


REWARD'', n.
1. Recompense, or equivalent return for good done, for kindness, for services and the like. Rewards may consist of money, goods or any return of kindness or happiness.
The laborer is worthy of his reward. 1Tim. 5.
Great is your reward in heaven. Matt. 5.
Mt 6:6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall REWARD thee openly.
seeing that the word reward appears 36 times in the new testament (KJV) I would for sure say that it is very much a Bibical doctrine

also as pretaining to this thread



DISCIPLE, n. [L., to learn.]
1. A learner; a scholar; one who receives or professes to receive instruction from another; as the disciples of Plato.
2. A follower; an adherent to the doctrines of another. Hence the constant attendants of Christ were called his disciples; and hence all Christians are called his disciples, as they profess to learn and receive his doctrines and precepts.


A disciple can be a follower but it can also be a learner or a follower of ones teachings. so not everyboby has to be following the crowd to be a disciple look at these verses ;

Lu 9:49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.Lu 9:50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.


so just because one is not walking ( following ) the way you are, doesn't mean they are against Him

 

[KingdomGeneration]

I agree Mahogany. I personally believe that if the Holy Spirit truly lives inside of your heart, you will want to learn everything that you can to become more like him. I also believe that over time, as you begin to truly understand and appreciate Christ and His goodness (his grace and faithfulness despite our imperfections), the more you will want to know about and how to live a life pleasing to Him. I feel that is the motivation behind "spiritual maturity".

Do I believe that God extends His grace greatly toward new believers? Definitely. I also believe that "to whom much is given, much is required" which, in my opinion at least, means that God expects more from you as you mature in Christ. However, I don't believe in "levels of Christianity". I don't think there is any scripture in the bible that endorses that view, at least not from my studies.

 

[KingdomGeneration]

"A belief I've come across sometimes talking to other Christians, is that everyone must believe in Christ to be saved, but being a disciple is something we can choose to do that may result in greater rewards etc."

I believe that rewards program is a true Bibical doctrine :
Heb 11:6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a REWARDER of them that diligently seek him.



1co 3:13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.1co 3:14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.1co 3:15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

salvation is a gift something given but not earned,


REWARD'', n.
1. Recompense, or equivalent return for good done, for kindness, for services and the like. Rewards may consist of money, goods or any return of kindness or happiness.
The laborer is worthy of his reward. 1Tim. 5.
Great is your reward in heaven. Matt. 5.
Mt 6:6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall REWARD thee openly.
seeing that the word reward appears 36 times in the new testament (KJV) I would for sure say that it is very much a Bibical doctrine

also as pretaining to this thread



DISCIPLE, n. [L., to learn.]
1. A learner; a scholar; one who receives or professes to receive instruction from another; as the disciples of Plato.
2. A follower; an adherent to the doctrines of another. Hence the constant attendants of Christ were called his disciples; and hence all Christians are called his disciples, as they profess to learn and receive his doctrines and precepts.


A disciple can be a follower but it can also be a learner or a follower of ones teachings. so not everyboby has to be following the crowd to be a disciple look at these verses ;

Lu 9:49And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.Lu 9:50And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.


so just because one is not walking ( following ) the way you are, doesn't mean they are against Him

Personally I feel that Christ is our reward. Sure their are mentions of crowns in the bible however these crowns (ei. "the crown of eternal life") seem to indicate something of more significant, something spiritual, rather than just silver or gold or a bigger mansion.

 

[Tehillah]

Yes, I do agree on that.. Being a desciple means serving no matter what the cost would be..Giving up
whatever is important on us..Standing firm with Christ and growing with Him.

Is being a believer mandatory, but being a disciple, optional?

A belief I've come across sometimes talking to other Christians, is that everyone must believe in Christ to be saved, but being a disciple is something we can choose to do that may result in greater rewards etc. They usually reference the fact that not everyone who believed in Christ actually walked with Him or was a member of his party. Of course we know that Jesus had many more disciples than just his 12 closest, and crowds followed Him, but there were also others who believed in Him yet were too afraid to be a disciple , or perhaps too busy, or things like that.

The other belief, which is the one I'm used to and the one I personally agree with the most, is that being a believer and disciple is the same thing, we can't believe in Christ without being His disciple.

I believe a disciple is simply someone who learns. So another way to express this question might be, can we still believe in Christ, without actually learning from Him?

What are your thoughts and does scripture support either view ?

 

[thefightinglamb]

I wasn't trying to say that Christians don't grow!

I was trying to say that those who give up all for Christ are all placed on the same level--everything they now have comes from Christ and so they are kind of like all on the same level, or all of the same stuff...Thus if someone is more spiritually blossomed then you are you can rejoice with them, because God perhaps blessed them with more than you or they have just been developing longer or whatever...I am trying to say after you give up everything (your heart) there is nothing more you can give, so it all proceeds from the same God...and thuse everyone is one the same level...listening and seeking God's word, though to some through practice might here it more clearly...still in your own life, you have to be governed by what God tells you and not by what others--even if they are more developed then yourself.

When I was in college, I remember pondering different philosophers, and being like I am too uneducated to judge all of these heavy thinkers and decide who is right! SO, I didn't know what to do because they all seemed more sophisticated and complicated then I live my life, so in turning to the Lord I saw that all we can do is follow him and whatever path he gives us personally and not the path of someone else...For example, if I love someone, say my father, who is a fireman (not really a fireman just an example), it is not following God necessarily for me to become a fireman...Or with morals even, just because someone you perceive as better than you doesn't think you should do something, doesn't mean God isn't telling you to do it...He might be testing you to see if you will follow them or him despite opposition or even persecution...

SO if you are truly remaining in Christ he is all in all, no matter if you haven't grown as much as someone else...I don't know if you were seeing what I wrote the first time...Some people after being saved (or having thought themselves always saved) go on to live a sort of life thinking God forgave me for who I am and accepts me for who I am, and thus continue to live a life that is ion the surface, and then some go a little deeper but avoid giving God everything, and some put no boundaries on where God can go in their life...these are an abreviation of all the levels I have seen suggested in my own life...personally I think Christians are those who always desire the last even if sin or whatever is preventing them from completely doing it...

Is that that strange? I think most Christians think when you become saved you truly have to give God your life? I don't want to push old topics, but is it that strange to think that that is what we are always called to or want to do?

I think growth is something different then the 'levels' I was talking about...levels are like what some people consider Christians who say they are Christian, but always just stay on the surface...they never pray, or truly seek or hunger for the Lord.

God bless, hope this clarifies...and yes, perhaps I am crrrrraaaaazzzzzzzy...lol

The Lord be with you
tony the lesser