Is the Gospel a job offer? Or good news aimed at those who believe?

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Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#21
Jan 17, 2020
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#21
oyster67 said:
You believe first. You come by Faith. All men have a choice to make and "whosoever will" may come. Word mangling will not change this simple fact. Faith cometh by hearing. You must choose to listen. Not that complicated, is it?
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Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#22
Jan 13, 2016
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#22
Dave-L said:
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit all believers of all time had. Abel, Job, Abraham and more (Hebrews 11) were born again.
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Faith in what? Hebrews 11 explains what each one of those saints had faith in. For the Church, our faith is in the cross of Jesus Christ, His d,b,r for sins.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#23
Jan 17, 2020
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#23
John146 said:
Faith in what? Hebrews 11 explains what each one of those saints had faith in. For the Church, our faith is in the cross of Jesus Christ, His d,b,r for sins.
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Faith is spiritual matters.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#24
Jul 18, 2017
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#24
Dave-L said:
What it comes down to is whether salvation is a legalistic offer (job offer). Or an announcement (preaching) of the good news of salvation for those who believe what they are hearing as the preaching continues.
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How can salvation be a "legalistic offer" and who preaches such nonsense? The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners are justified BY GRACE through faith.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#25
Jan 17, 2020
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#25
Nehemiah6 said:
How can salvation be a "legalistic offer" and who preaches such nonsense? The Bible makes it perfectly clear that sinners are justified BY GRACE through faith.
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They don't define grace accurately. They make it conditional = a job offer.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#26
Jan 13, 2016
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#26
Dave-L said:
They don't define grace accurately. They make it conditional = a job offer.
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Grace is a gift from God. One must receive the gift. It’s not forced upon anyone.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#27
Jan 17, 2020
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#27
John146 said:
Grace is a gift from God. One must receive the gift. It’s not forced upon anyone.
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Dead people need grace. Those who think it is an offer don't understand sin.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#31
Jan 17, 2020
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#31
John146 said:
Apples to oranges...if this is another Calvinist thread, I’m out. Been there done that.
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If you are not incapacitated by sin, you don't need salvation. You can do it yourself and save!
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#32
#32
one of those going, going, gone type threads

almost bait click in quality, you will never understand and you do not know like I do types

all over the place and nowhere in particular

don't hurt yourselves trying to get somewhere cause there is nowhere to get :rolleyes:
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#33
#33
John146 said:
Apples to oranges...if this is another Calvinist thread, I’m out. Been there done that.
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seems to be leaning that way after reading some of his other posts

I wouldn't worry about it

I get the impression he will clash with Calvinists also :whistle:
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#34
Dec 12, 2013
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#34
posthuman said:
well He says "has life" not "will receive life minus taxes at the end of the next payperiod prorated by # of hours worked"

so . . i think that's essentially a settled question.

people have different ideas about what 'life' means. some think unless you are daily 100% perfect and sinless, you don't have life. some think unless you are speaking in tongues you do not have life. some think 'life' means working miracles, some think it means always with a cheery and polite attitude, some even think it means their bodies stop their decay. and a lot of people look for such evidences, and if they don't see them, they declare a person does not have eternal life.

Jesus defines eternal life as knowing Him, and the Father who sent Him ((John 17:3)), and He says it is "given" not earned ((John 17:2))
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The perfect tense Greek verb is clear enough......so is the past tense application of salvation, justification and eternal life!
 
GaryA

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
#35
Aug 10, 2019
9,825
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mywebsite.us
#35
Dave-L said:
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
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Yes it is.

Galatians 5:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

All of the things in this list are in the sense of what is a combination of state-of-being and way-of-being.

It is the "effectual result" of the Spirit which "tends toward" these things - which are an 'outworking' of the Spirit.

They are not 'automatic', and can be 'overridden' by the flesh.

'faith' = 'belief' + 'trust'

There is a faith "unto salvation" ('initial' act of faith), and there is a faith that is "life-maintenance" (like as in "keep the faith").

Same faith.

In the context of the verse above, it is the latter.


Faith is a decision of belief and trust.

It is also a tendency of belief and trust.

And, it is a similar thing (decision and tendency) for all of the things in the list.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#36
Jan 17, 2020
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#36
GaryA said:
Yes it is.

Galatians 5:

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

All of the things in this list are in the sense of what is a combination of state-of-being and way-of-being.

It is the "effectual result" of the Spirit which "tends toward" these things - which are an 'outworking' of the Spirit.

They are not 'automatic', and can be 'overridden' by the flesh.

'faith' = 'belief' + 'trust'

There is a faith "unto salvation" ('initial' act of faith), and there is a faith that is "life-maintenance" (like as in "keep the faith").

Same faith.

In the context of the verse above, it is the latter.


Faith is a decision of belief and trust.

It is also a tendency of belief and trust.

And, it is a similar thing (decision and tendency) for all of the things in the list.
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Must you choose to believe you are setting in your chair? Or choose to believe you are alive? If faith is a decision it is only because you don't believe and must force your flesh to assent to your version of the gospel.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#37
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#37
7seasrekeyed said:
one of those going, going, gone type threads

almost bait click in quality, you will never understand and you do not know like I do types

all over the place and nowhere in particular

don't hurt yourselves trying to get somewhere cause there is nowhere to get :rolleyes:
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It's your choice.......
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#40
#40
Dave-L said:
But this assumes you don't need salvation if you can choose to do these things. Grace saves those who cannot believe in any true sense and are unable to discern spiritual truth. Giving them new hearts who believe and repent in Love for God.
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God resist the proud but gives Grace to the humble. No man seeks after God. If my people shall humble themselves and seek my face then I shall hear them and heal there land.

How we approach God is the first step toward salvation......Jesus said not everyone that calls me Lord shall enter in.
Many people add God to there lives. This is not how God responds.
God in his loving mercy came to man first. As a voice in the garden, a voice in a burning bush, a voice that speaks to our conscience,
A voice that cries in the wilderness, then the voice that was made flesh and walked among us.
God's word is proven through the course of history to change the hearts of even the most harden people.
It always starts with God. By grace and not of ourselves. Little if anything did we ever know that we needed to be saved. That there was such a thing.
God in his loving mercy has created all things for his glory. Those that respond with humbleness from a contrite heart shall enter in.
 
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