What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,830
4,314
113
mywebsite.us
Israel obviously became a nation in 1948 and Jerusalem was theirs again in 1967. However, there was no prophesy of this in the Bible. Some futurists point to Mat 24, "generation of the fig tree" as the prophesy but this view is wrong.
Most Christians I know believe that 1948/1967 was the fulfillment of the Dry Bones prophecy.

What they don't know is that it was not Biblical Israel that became the nation that exists today.

Therefore, it is not - indeed, cannot be - a fulfillment of the Dry Bones prophecy.

I believe the Dry Bones prophecy to have a millennium fulfillment.

How does the Dry Bones prophecy fit into your view?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
True that. But, they were much closer to the events of the first century than we are. It's funny how many on here cite Irenaeus who was from the same time frame, circa 165 AD as the authority for dating the writing of Revelation when he was a double hearsay witness from Gaul (France) with no direct knowledge of John. He heard a story from someone (Polycarp) who heard a story yet everyone who claims a 95-96 AD writing uses Irenaeus like he was divine Gospel-like accurate.

My purpose for showing what these early Christian writers wrote is to show support for my position. It isn't like I invented this theory out thin air. Many believed as I do, especially the further back you go. Do you know that Polycarp never once mentions Christ returning?

There is a difference between the term "Church fathers" and "Apostolic fathers" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Fathers this is that in the case of Polycarp(and others) Polycarp personally knew and was appointed as Bishop of Smyrna by John the Apostle. Irenaeus was born in Smyrna and grew up listening to Polycarp from his childhood. So Polycarp learned from John the Apostle and Irenaeus leaned from Polycarp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
This is off topic but are you familiar with the Apocalypse of Peter? Apparently it was considered far more authentic by the early church than his 2nd epistle was, which was not quoted until the late 4th century and remains in dispute. The Apocalypse of Peter gives an incredible description of heaven and hell that I have never heard before, especially the description of hell and the various forms of punishment based on the type of sinner one was. We all better stay on the straight and narrow after reading this!!

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apocalypsepeter-roberts.html

As for myself I would be leery of any book not proven to be written by Peter because there were many who wrote letters and attributed them to the Apostles.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
Eusebius ends any debate about the meaning of the Olivet Discourse. His view is identical to mine. He destroys all FUTURISTS VIEWS RIGHT HERE. GAME OVER.

Chapter VII.—The Predictions of Christ.

1. It is fitting to add to these accounts the true prediction of our Saviour in which he foretold these very events.

2. His words are as follows: “Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

3. The historian (Josephus), reckoning the whole number of the slain, says that eleven hundred thousand persons perished by famine and sword, and that the rest of the rioters and robbers, being betrayed by each other after the taking of the city, were slain. But the tallest of the youths and those that were distinguished for beauty were preserved for the triumph. Of the rest of the multitude, those that were over seventeen years of age were sent as prisoners to labor in the works of Egypt, while still more were scattered through the provinces to meet their death in the theaters by the sword and by beasts. Those under seventeen years of age were carried away to be sold as slaves, and of these alone the number reached ninety thousand.

4. These things took place in this manner in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, in accordance with the prophecies of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who by divine power saw them beforehand as if they were already present, and wept and mourned according to the statement of the holy evangelists, who give the very words which he uttered, when, as if addressing Jerusalem herself, he said:

5. “If thou hadst known, even thou, in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a rampart about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall lay thee and thy children even with the ground.”

6. And then, as if speaking concerning the people, he says, “For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” And again: “When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

7. If any one compares the words of our Saviour with the other accounts of the historian concerning the whole war, how can one fail to wonder, and to admit that the foreknowledge and the prophecy of our Saviour were truly divine and marvelously strange.

8. Concerning those calamities, then, that befell the whole Jewish nation after the Saviour’s passion and after the words which the multitude of the Jews uttered, when they begged the release of the robber and murderer, but besought that the Prince of Life should be taken from their midst, it is not necessary to add anything to the account of the historian.

9. But it may be proper to mention also those events which exhibited the graciousness of that all-good Providence which held back their destruction full forty years after their crime against Christ,—during which time many of the apostles and disciples, and James himself the first bishop there, the one who is called the brother of the Lord, were still alive, and dwelling in Jerusalem itself, remained the surest bulwark of the place. Divine Providence thus still proved itself long-suffering toward them in order to see whether by repentance for what they had done they might obtain pardon and salvation; and in addition to such long-suffering, Providence also furnished wonderful signs of the things which were about to happen to them if they did not repent.

10. Since these matters have been thought worthy of mention by the historian already cited, we cannot do better than to recount them for the benefit of the readers of this work.

You say that your views are just like those of Eusabius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusebius Eusabius was an admirer of Origen and defended Arius https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius how do you view Jesus in the Godhead?
 

rily51jean

Junior Member
Apr 30, 2017
73
14
8
Nope
Most of that is not true.

You refured your own deal.

All... Every inhabitant of earth is resurrected.
It says even the sea gave up her dead.
So all resurrect in a physical body to enter eternity in that physical body.
"Not true!?"
Did you mean to say "refuted"? my own deal? no, it's not my own deal.
Eccl. 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it."

Everybody resurrects spiritually, in a spiritual body, the flesh returns to dust and dirt and ashes.


Well, suit yourself, you don't believe the word of God, then. But, you can look it up, I recommend the the good KJV.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
As for myself I would be leery of any book not proven to be written by Peter because there were many who wrote letters and attributed them to the Apostles.
Does that go for 2nd Peter? We didn't get our Bible until 1611. The Word of God is the Word of God. But who wrote what can be disputed and is. Apparently the authorship of Second Peter is still in dispute. This from Eusebius that I am re-reading along with footnotes. I didn't write the below and I take no position, just passing it along:

Chapter III.—The Epistles of the Apostles.

1. One epistle of Peter, that called the first, is acknowledged as genuine.578 And this the ancient elders579 used freely in their own writings as an undisputed work.580 But we have learned that his extant second Epistle does not belong to the canon;581 yet, as it has appeared profitable to many, it has been used with the other Scriptures.582

2. The so-called Acts of Peter,583 however, and the Gospel584 which bears his name, and the Preaching585 and the 134Apocalypse,586 as they are called, we know have not been universally accepted,587 because no ecclesiastical writer, ancient or modern, has made use of testimonies drawn from them.588

3. But in the course of my history I shall be careful to show, in addition to the official succession, what ecclesiastical writers have from time to time made use of any of the disputed works,589 and what they have said in regard to the canonical and accepted writings,590 as well as in regard to those which are not of this class.

4. Such are the writings that bear the name of Peter, only one of which I know to be genuine591 and acknowledged by the ancient elders

578 The testimony of tradition is unanimous for the authenticity of the first Epistle of Peter. It was known to Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Papias, Hermas, &c. (the Muratorian Fragment, however, omits it), and was cited under the name of Peter by Irenæus, Tertullian, and Clement of Alexandria, from whose time its canonicity and Petrine authorship were established, so that Eusebius rightly puts it among the homologoumena. Semler, in 1784, was the first to deny its direct Petrine authorship, and Cludius, in 1808, pronounced it absolutely ungenuine. The Tübingen School followed, and at the present time the genuineness is denied by all the negative critics, chiefly on account of the strong Pauline character of the epistle (cf. Holtzmann, Einleitung, p. 487 sqq., also Weiss, Einleitung, p. 428 sqq., who confines the resemblances to the Epistles to the Romans and to the Ephesians, and denies the general Pauline character of the epistle). The great majority of scholars, however, maintain the Petrine authorship. A new opinion, expressed by Harnack, upon the assumption of the distinctively Pauline character of the epistle, is that it was written during the apostolic age by some follower of Paul, and that the name of Peter was afterward attached to it, so that it represents no fraud on the part of the writer, but an effort of a later age to find an author for the anonymous epistle. In support of this is urged the fact that though the epistle is so frequently quoted in the second century, it is never connected with Peter’s name until the time of Irenæus. (Cf. Harnack’s Lehre der Zwölf Apostel, p. 106, note, and his Dogmengeschichte, I. p. 278, note 2.) This theory has found few supporters.

581 οὐκ ἐνδι€θηκον μὲν εἶναι παρειλήφαμεν. The authorship of the second Epistle of Peter has always been widely disputed. The external testimony for it is very weak, as no knowledge of it can be proved to have existed before the third century. Numerous explanations have been offered by apologists to account for this curious fact; but it still remains almost inexplicable, if the epistle be accepted as the work of the apostle. The first clear references to it are made by Firmilian, Bishop of Cæsarea in Cappadocia (third century), in his Epistle to Cyprian, §6 (Ep. 74, in the collection of Cyprian’s Epistles, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Am. ed., V. p. 391), and by Origen (quoted by Eusebius, VI. 25, below), who mentions the second Epistle as disputed. Clement of Alexandria, however, seems at least to have known and used it (according to Euseb. VI. 14). The epistle was not admitted into the Canon until the Council of Hippo, in 393, when all doubts and discussion ceased until the Reformation. It is at present disputed by all negative critics, and even by many otherwise conservative scholars. Those who defend its genuineness date it shortly before the death of Peter, while the majority of those who reject it throw it into the second century,—some as late as the time of Clement of Alexandria (e.g. Harnack, in his Lehre der Zwölf Apostel, p. 15 and 159, who assigns its composition to Egypt). Cf. Holtzmann, Einleitung, p. 495 sqq., and Weiss (who leaves its genuineness an open question), Einleitung, p. 436 sqq. For a defense of the genuineness, see especially Warfield, in the Southern Pres. Rev., 1883, p. 390 sqq., and Salmon’s Introduction to the N. T., p. 512 sqq.

586 The Apocalypse of Peter enjoyed considerable favor in the early Church and was accepted by some Fathers as a genuine work of the apostle. It is mentioned in the Muratorian Fragment in connection with the Apocalypse of John, as a part of the Roman Canon, and is accepted by the author of the fragment himself; although he says that some at that time rejected it. Clement of Alexandria, in his Hypotyposes (according to Eusebius, IV. 14, below), commented upon it, thus showing that it belonged at that time to the Alexandrian Canon. In the third century it was still received in the North African Church (so Harnack, who refers to the stichometry of the Codex Claramontanus). The Eclogæ or Prophetical Selections of Clement of Alexandria give it as a genuine work of Peter (§§41, 48, 49, p. 1000 sq., Potter’s ed.), and so Methodius of Tyre (Sympos. XI. 6, p. 16, ed. Jahn, according to Lipsius). After Eusebius’ time the work seems to have been universally regarded as spurious, and thus, as its canonicity depended upon its apostolic origin (see chap. 24, note 19), it gradually fell out of the Canon. It nevertheless held its place for centuries among the semi-scriptural books, and was read in many churches. According to Sozomen, H. E. VII. 19, it was read at Easter, which shows that it was treated with especial respect. Nicephorus in his Stichometry puts it among the Antilegomena, in immediate connection with the Apocalypse of John. As Lipsius remarks, its “lay-recognition in orthodox circles proves that it could not have had a Gnostic origin, nor otherwise have contained what was offensive to Catholic Christians” (see Lipsius, Dict. of Christ. Biog. I. p. 130 sqq.). Only a few fragments of the work are extant, and these are given by Hilgenfeld, in his Nov. Test. extra Can. receptum, IV. 74 sq., and by Grabe, Spic. Patr. I. 71 sqq.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
There is a difference between the term "Church fathers" and "Apostolic fathers" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Fathers this is that in the case of Polycarp(and others) Polycarp personally knew and was appointed as Bishop of Smyrna by John the Apostle. Irenaeus was born in Smyrna and grew up listening to Polycarp from his childhood. So Polycarp learned from John the Apostle and Irenaeus leaned from Polycarp. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenaeus
And the Whistle-blower worked in the CIA and was not on the call with Presidents Trump and Zelenski. Instead he learned about the call from Col. Vindman who leaked the conversation to him. His so-called "whistle-blower" complaint, as we learned was loaded with major errors and exaggerations. Had the conversation been related factually, Trump would not be facing impeachment, but that radical communist who runs our US House was already out there on a limb calling for impeachment before Trump released the fairly innocent transcript. Can you see how dangerous it is to accept hearsay evidence?

My understanding was that indeed Polycarp knew John and that Irenaeus was a Polycarp fan but they only met once. At the time when Irenaeus wrote that Paul was banished by Domitian he was recalling the conversation 35 years after it happened. I could be wrong, but this is what I remember reading when I researched this topic. All one has to do is read Revelation and Josephus to see they cover the same ground. If Revelation was written in 96 AD as some suggest, then it was written with the advantage of history and is NOT a prophetic book. I can't accept that.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
That's your response to the overwhelming evidence of the first century GT, AoD etc? You bring up a different topic. What a cop out!!
Was your post directed to me you did not quote me or mention my screen name? If it was intended for the thread and not me alone then Eusabius was preterist as well as any are today and see these issues past tense so I would not expect his opinion to be different. In such when I read you saying you saw things just like Eusabius and so it made me curious.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Most Christians I know believe that 1948/1967 was the fulfillment of the Dry Bones prophecy.

What they don't know is that it was not Biblical Israel that became the nation that exists today.

Therefore, it is not - indeed, cannot be - a fulfillment of the Dry Bones prophecy.

I believe the Dry Bones prophecy to have a millennium fulfillment.

How does the Dry Bones prophecy fit into your view?
EZEK 37? When Babylon invaded Israel in 597-586 BC they wiped out the outer towns and cities before sacking Jerusalem killing Jews by the tens of thousands. The Israeli army was totally wiped out. The nation lay largely in ruins for 70 years. The great military and economic strength of Israel was gone. Ezekiel was taken to either a literal or figurative battlefield from that war and was asked if Israel could rise to power again, "Can these bones come back to life?" God answered that they could and indeed after the captivity Israel was restored to the Land and grew again into a regional power. This was shown as the bones coming back to life.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Was your post directed to me you did not quote me or mention my screen name? If it was intended for the thread and not me alone then Eusabius was preterist as well as any are today and see these issues past tense so I would not expect his opinion to be different. In such when I read you saying you saw things just like Eusabius and so it made me curious.
It was directed to anyone who believes the events of the Olivet are in our future. You responded to the post but didn't weigh in on the overriding issue, that being that Eusebius, the Bishop of Ceasaria, claimed with almost matter-of-fact certainty that those events Jesus predicted were fulfilled in the War of the Jews as related by Josephus. He goes on to show how. Thus the early church knew but this knowledge sadly, has been almost entirely lost by most churches today.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
And the Whistle-blower worked in the CIA and was not on the call with Presidents Trump and Zelenski. Instead he learned about the call from Col. Vindman who leaked the conversation to him. His so-called "whistle-blower" complaint, as we learned was loaded with major errors and exaggerations. Had the conversation been related factually, Trump would not be facing impeachment, but that radical communist who runs our US House was already out there on a limb calling for impeachment before Trump released the fairly innocent transcript. Can you see how dangerous it is to accept hearsay evidence?

My understanding was that indeed Polycarp knew John and that Irenaeus was a Polycarp fan but they only met once. At the time when Irenaeus wrote that Paul was banished by Domitian he was recalling the conversation 35 years after it happened. I could be wrong, but this is what I remember reading when I researched this topic. All one has to do is read Revelation and Josephus to see they cover the same ground. If Revelation was written in 96 AD as some suggest, then it was written with the advantage of history and is NOT a prophetic book. I can't accept that.

Chapters 2 and 3. http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0134.htm
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Gary,

Ezekiel was born in 622 BC and died around 570 BC. He was already active as a prophet before the Exile. His prophesies were written down by those around him. According to the Bible, Ezekiel and his wife lived during the Babylonia captivity on the banks of the Chebar River, in Tel Abib, with other exiles from Judah. There is no mention of him having any offspring.

Ezekiel describes his calling to be a prophet by going into great detail about his encounter with God and four "living creatures" with four wheels that stayed beside the creatures. For the next five years he incessantly prophesied and acted out the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, which was met with some opposition. However, Ezekiel and his contemporaries like Jeremiah, another prophet who was living in Jerusalem at that time, witnessed the fulfillment of their prophecies with the siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. On the hypothesis that the "thirtieth year" of Ezekiel 1:1 refers to Ezekiel's age, Ezekiel was fifty years old when he had his final vision. On the basis of dates given in the Book of Ezekiel, Ezekiel's span of prophecies can be calculated to have occurred over the course of about 22 years. The last dated words of Ezekiel date to April 570 BCE.

The Babylonian captivity formally ended in 538 BC by decree of Cyrus long after Ezekiel's death. Thus if we take this history in context, as we should, Ezekiel was seeing his country's return in his near future and not in 1948. I hope that makes sense?

Andy
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
1,609
113
Does that go for 2nd Peter? We didn't get our Bible until 1611. The Word of God is the Word of God. But who wrote what can be disputed and is. Apparently the authorship of Second Peter is still in dispute. This from Eusebius that I am re-reading along with footnotes. I didn't write the below and I take no position, just passing it along:

Chapter III.—The Epistles of the Apostles.

1. One epistle of Peter, that called the first, is acknowledged as genuine.578 And this the ancient elders579 used freely in their own writings as an undisputed work.580 But we have learned that his extant second Epistle does not belong to the canon;581 yet, as it has appeared profitable to many, it has been used with the other Scriptures.582

2. The so-called Acts of Peter,583 however, and the Gospel584 which bears his name, and the Preaching585 and the 134Apocalypse,586 as they are called, we know have not been universally accepted,587 because no ecclesiastical writer, ancient or modern, has made use of testimonies drawn from them.588

3. But in the course of my history I shall be careful to show, in addition to the official succession, what ecclesiastical writers have from time to time made use of any of the disputed works,589 and what they have said in regard to the canonical and accepted writings,590 as well as in regard to those which are not of this class.

4. Such are the writings that bear the name of Peter, only one of which I know to be genuine591 and acknowledged by the ancient elders

578 The testimony of tradition is unanimous for the authenticity of the first Epistle of Peter. It was known to Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Papias, Hermas, &c. (the Muratorian Fragment, however, omits it), and was cited under the name of Peter by Irenæus, Tertullian, and Clement of Alexandria, from whose time its canonicity and Petrine authorship were established, so that Eusebius rightly puts it among the homologoumena. Semler, in 1784, was the first to deny its direct Petrine authorship, and Cludius, in 1808, pronounced it absolutely ungenuine. The Tübingen School followed, and at the present time the genuineness is denied by all the negative critics, chiefly on account of the strong Pauline character of the epistle (cf. Holtzmann, Einleitung, p. 487 sqq., also Weiss, Einleitung, p. 428 sqq., who confines the resemblances to the Epistles to the Romans and to the Ephesians, and denies the general Pauline character of the epistle). The great majority of scholars, however, maintain the Petrine authorship. A new opinion, expressed by Harnack, upon the assumption of the distinctively Pauline character of the epistle, is that it was written during the apostolic age by some follower of Paul, and that the name of Peter was afterward attached to it, so that it represents no fraud on the part of the writer, but an effort of a later age to find an author for the anonymous epistle. In support of this is urged the fact that though the epistle is so frequently quoted in the second century, it is never connected with Peter’s name until the time of Irenæus. (Cf. Harnack’s Lehre der Zwölf Apostel, p. 106, note, and his Dogmengeschichte, I. p. 278, note 2.) This theory has found few supporters.

581 οὐκ ἐνδι€θηκον μὲν εἶναι παρειλήφαμεν. The authorship of the second Epistle of Peter has always been widely disputed. The external testimony for it is very weak, as no knowledge of it can be proved to have existed before the third century. Numerous explanations have been offered by apologists to account for this curious fact; but it still remains almost inexplicable, if the epistle be accepted as the work of the apostle. The first clear references to it are made by Firmilian, Bishop of Cæsarea in Cappadocia (third century), in his Epistle to Cyprian, §6 (Ep. 74, in the collection of Cyprian’s Epistles, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Am. ed., V. p. 391), and by Origen (quoted by Eusebius, VI. 25, below), who mentions the second Epistle as disputed. Clement of Alexandria, however, seems at least to have known and used it (according to Euseb. VI. 14). The epistle was not admitted into the Canon until the Council of Hippo, in 393, when all doubts and discussion ceased until the Reformation. It is at present disputed by all negative critics, and even by many otherwise conservative scholars. Those who defend its genuineness date it shortly before the death of Peter, while the majority of those who reject it throw it into the second century,—some as late as the time of Clement of Alexandria (e.g. Harnack, in his Lehre der Zwölf Apostel, p. 15 and 159, who assigns its composition to Egypt). Cf. Holtzmann, Einleitung, p. 495 sqq., and Weiss (who leaves its genuineness an open question), Einleitung, p. 436 sqq. For a defense of the genuineness, see especially Warfield, in the Southern Pres. Rev., 1883, p. 390 sqq., and Salmon’s Introduction to the N. T., p. 512 sqq.

586 The Apocalypse of Peter enjoyed considerable favor in the early Church and was accepted by some Fathers as a genuine work of the apostle. It is mentioned in the Muratorian Fragment in connection with the Apocalypse of John, as a part of the Roman Canon, and is accepted by the author of the fragment himself; although he says that some at that time rejected it. Clement of Alexandria, in his Hypotyposes (according to Eusebius, IV. 14, below), commented upon it, thus showing that it belonged at that time to the Alexandrian Canon. In the third century it was still received in the North African Church (so Harnack, who refers to the stichometry of the Codex Claramontanus). The Eclogæ or Prophetical Selections of Clement of Alexandria give it as a genuine work of Peter (§§41, 48, 49, p. 1000 sq., Potter’s ed.), and so Methodius of Tyre (Sympos. XI. 6, p. 16, ed. Jahn, according to Lipsius). After Eusebius’ time the work seems to have been universally regarded as spurious, and thus, as its canonicity depended upon its apostolic origin (see chap. 24, note 19), it gradually fell out of the Canon. It nevertheless held its place for centuries among the semi-scriptural books, and was read in many churches. According to Sozomen, H. E. VII. 19, it was read at Easter, which shows that it was treated with especial respect. Nicephorus in his Stichometry puts it among the Antilegomena, in immediate connection with the Apocalypse of John. As Lipsius remarks, its “lay-recognition in orthodox circles proves that it could not have had a Gnostic origin, nor otherwise have contained what was offensive to Catholic Christians” (see Lipsius, Dict. of Christ. Biog. I. p. 130 sqq.). Only a few fragments of the work are extant, and these are given by Hilgenfeld, in his Nov. Test. extra Can. receptum, IV. 74 sq., and by Grabe, Spic. Patr. I. 71 sqq.

Eusabius was an admirer of Oigen Origen went into hiding in the home of Juliana the Virgin who was a student of Ebionite leader Symmachus,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen . The Ebonites(same ones from Pella) rejected Paul as an Apostle as an apostate from the law,,, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites

Now there would be very few books in the New Testament if refer to the opinions of the Ebionites, Eusabius would there not? I think we should leave 2nd Peter and the letters of Paul as they are and see Eusabius and the Ebionites opinions as opinions.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
He's quoting Acts 17:31. This passage was about being virtuous so that on judgment day, you will be worthy. Polycarp was NOT looking for a second coming rapture event. He was looking forward to his resurrection as we see from the same passage:

"He who raised Him up from the dead will raise up us also, if we do His will, and walk in His commandments..."