Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today
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Dave, we are not so far from each other. Only the way you use explain, why the apostolic time is not for today. I cant follow your view.
But the history itself proofs that God has stopped it. Even in the time when Montanus foundet his sect and to claime the right truth with prophecie and speaking in tongues, the practising of the gifts as we found in 1. Cor. has stopped and many churches became wordly. Thats maby also was a reason why many followed his cult.
Till the modern pentecostalism began in 1901, no church was practisising the gifts as it is reportet from 1. Cor. ! The almost references about extraordinary gifts in the churchhistory are to find along with mission work. But never in the ordinary church life. Thats why pentecostals call the events in topeka and azusa as a new pentecost. They useing the onetime events in acts 2,8,10 and 19, and also joel 2, for to proof their expierience. But forgetting that joel 2 is for the jews. And that the context shows that Israel will live in a status of peace, when the fullfilment will take happen, about what Peter mentioned in acts 2.
Till today israel had no living in peace and till today they did not accept Jesus Christ as their messajah.
And you are right, would the gifts today operating like in the time of Jesus and the apostles, the world would recognize it.
Jesus heals today too and doing miracles, without question!!!!!
But the history itself proofs that God has stopped it. Even in the time when Montanus foundet his sect and to claime the right truth with prophecie and speaking in tongues, the practising of the gifts as we found in 1. Cor. has stopped and many churches became wordly. Thats maby also was a reason why many followed his cult.
Till the modern pentecostalism began in 1901, no church was practisising the gifts as it is reportet from 1. Cor. ! The almost references about extraordinary gifts in the churchhistory are to find along with mission work. But never in the ordinary church life. Thats why pentecostals call the events in topeka and azusa as a new pentecost. They useing the onetime events in acts 2,8,10 and 19, and also joel 2, for to proof their expierience. But forgetting that joel 2 is for the jews. And that the context shows that Israel will live in a status of peace, when the fullfilment will take happen, about what Peter mentioned in acts 2.
Till today israel had no living in peace and till today they did not accept Jesus Christ as their messajah.
And you are right, would the gifts today operating like in the time of Jesus and the apostles, the world would recognize it.
Jesus heals today too and doing miracles, without question!!!!!
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Again, you are completely misrepresenting the issues.
OF COURSE believers are to believe what God has delivered in His word; that's obvious! However, that does not preclude believing other things as well, especially when they are consistent with God's word.
There is far more knowledge than what is contained in the Bible. You might even use a little of it on a daily basis... do you brush your teeth? The Bible doesn't tell you to do that. Do you drive a car? Nope, not in the Bible. Internal combustion engines, brakes, electronics... none of them are in the Bible. Get your head out of the tiny little box into which you've stuck it and start using it for the purpose God gave it... to think.
OF COURSE believers are to believe what God has delivered in His word; that's obvious! However, that does not preclude believing other things as well, especially when they are consistent with God's word.
There is far more knowledge than what is contained in the Bible. You might even use a little of it on a daily basis... do you brush your teeth? The Bible doesn't tell you to do that. Do you drive a car? Nope, not in the Bible. Internal combustion engines, brakes, electronics... none of them are in the Bible. Get your head out of the tiny little box into which you've stuck it and start using it for the purpose God gave it... to think.
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We are to believe the bible and not add our personal aspirations to it. Study the scriptures and trust the Lord. Tongues ended and there never was an injunction to pray in tongues. Praying in tongues is a completely fabricated non-biblical doctrine. The bible speaks to eternal things and the need for men to be saved. You speak of earthly things that will perish at the end of the world. Lay up your treasure not upon the earth but in heaven.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Like many doctrines of God. Mankind fail to look to the foundation . That which applies to tongues also applies to baptism both have their foundation in the old . Destroy that foundation. . Then oral tradition of men can create anything as a new innovation . Taking away the intended subject matter.
Why the need of "self edification" as wonderments performed by human hands? How would that glorify our unseen God ?
Is God served by human hands?
Why the need of "self edification" as wonderments performed by human hands? How would that glorify our unseen God ?
Is God served by human hands?
“How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?” Hebrews 2:3–4 (KJV 1900)
Notice the past tense of the Apostles. Also for the signs and wonders. also notice the contents of Acts about the ministry of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
The Holy Spirit in Acts
The Gift of the Holy Spirit given to all believers for all time
I. They don't speak in tongues
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit
I. Given to the Apostles
A. They spoke in tongues and performed signs and wonders
II. Given to the Samaritans by the Apostles
III. Given to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house
A. they spoke in tongues
IV. Given to the Ephesians by the Apostles
A. They spoke in tongues
V. Given to Philip by the Apostles. He worked signs and wonders
Notice the past tense of the Apostles. Also for the signs and wonders. also notice the contents of Acts about the ministry of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
The Holy Spirit in Acts
The Gift of the Holy Spirit given to all believers for all time
I. They don't speak in tongues
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit
I. Given to the Apostles
A. They spoke in tongues and performed signs and wonders
II. Given to the Samaritans by the Apostles
III. Given to the Gentiles at Cornelius' house
A. they spoke in tongues
IV. Given to the Ephesians by the Apostles
A. They spoke in tongues
V. Given to Philip by the Apostles. He worked signs and wonders
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LOL!
gee if that were so, then everyone who lived during the time Christ graced this planet with His presence would have believed instead of creating a mock trial and having Him crucified
yes, in God's plan all along because he knew how men would treat His Son
you cannot prove what you say
you are just not capable and not only because what you say is not true
you simply are not capable and most of your responses indicate that to be true by the way you swing through here with your one liners
gee if that were so, then everyone who lived during the time Christ graced this planet with His presence would have believed instead of creating a mock trial and having Him crucified
yes, in God's plan all along because he knew how men would treat His Son
you cannot prove what you say
you are just not capable and not only because what you say is not true
you simply are not capable and most of your responses indicate that to be true by the way you swing through here with your one liners
LOL
What should cease is the idea of sign gifts. Spiritual unseen gifts will never cease
But those who fall backward refuse to look to the foundation of the doctrine of Tongues as a sign against unbelief.. no prophecy.
They did not cease have we have all the prophecy as living words needed to preach the spirit life giving. . . gospel. The unseen eternal.
Something missing or cut off? Another sign that proves God is working? Or look for another circus seal.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
What should cease is the idea of sign gifts. Spiritual unseen gifts will never cease
But those who fall backward refuse to look to the foundation of the doctrine of Tongues as a sign against unbelief.. no prophecy.
They did not cease have we have all the prophecy as living words needed to preach the spirit life giving. . . gospel. The unseen eternal.
Something missing or cut off? Another sign that proves God is working? Or look for another circus seal.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.