Can One’s Salvation Be Given Up?
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Yes what of it? It wasn't recorded what they taught. It was mostly Jesus who is talking.
Matthew 24:13-14
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
God has a Kingdom and whoever stands firm until the end will be saved. The Kingdom of God will overtake the Kingdom of Satan. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the message that Jesus brought and fulfilled. The Gospel that the Apostles including Paul preached until most of them martyred.
I have already seen your interpretation that that is supposed to be a different Gospel which is a very poor interpretation.
Matthew 24:13-14
13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
God has a Kingdom and whoever stands firm until the end will be saved. The Kingdom of God will overtake the Kingdom of Satan. The Gospel of the Kingdom is the message that Jesus brought and fulfilled. The Gospel that the Apostles including Paul preached until most of them martyred.
I have already seen your interpretation that that is supposed to be a different Gospel which is a very poor interpretation.
First we are granted repentance, it's not something we "do" in that way.
Acts 5:31
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
2 Timothy 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
It's a gift, and if you haven't repented then you haven't been born again, according to Jesus anyway. Also John 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
and 10-29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
I think these uses of "no one" include ourselves. We don't create ourselves, we don't save ourselves, we also don't have the power to choose who God saves and doesn't, including ourselves. That and I know how I feel and any believer around will testify they could never turn away. Even when I believed we could turn from Him because free will, but always had to add how "I could never imagine turning away, but what does God do? Make us slaves?". Funny thing about that is we are told we will be slaves of sin or slaves of Christ right?
Anyway thought these were relevant to the conversation.
Acts 5:31
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 11:18
When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
2 Timothy 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
It's a gift, and if you haven't repented then you haven't been born again, according to Jesus anyway. Also John 6:39
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of those He has given Me, but raise them up at the last day.
and 10-29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
I think these uses of "no one" include ourselves. We don't create ourselves, we don't save ourselves, we also don't have the power to choose who God saves and doesn't, including ourselves. That and I know how I feel and any believer around will testify they could never turn away. Even when I believed we could turn from Him because free will, but always had to add how "I could never imagine turning away, but what does God do? Make us slaves?". Funny thing about that is we are told we will be slaves of sin or slaves of Christ right?
Anyway thought these were relevant to the conversation.
I was making the point that Jesus was instructing the Jews. We can learn a lot about the character of God from those letters but it does not mean all the instructions necessarily crossover to us former gentiles.
Everyone accepts that for mark 16:17-18 and John 20:23, so I wonder what is the real problem.
Everyone accepts that for mark 16:17-18 and John 20:23, so I wonder what is the real problem.
In Paul’s day it had. The gospel was either rejected or it was poorly passed on.
Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Colossians 1
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Really? Acts 2:38 is clear that baptism is not a part of what Peter was telling them? He commands them to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. That’s not Church doctrine.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
You do realize by reading the Bible is one way God speaks to us right? Jewish history of David defeating Goliath can speak into your life at moments when you need encouragement.
I agree we can learn from every verse in scripture. Which is the point I been saying. In context you do learn who is being spoken to. And that is important. Jesus may be speaking to a pharisee but because of the Word being inspired if we the modern reader is acting like a pharisee then yes God is speaking those words to you.
The Word is living and active. A double edged sword. As you read it, it will cut into you no matter what book, Genesis to Revelation.
Does this seriously sound foreign to yall?
I agree we can learn from every verse in scripture. Which is the point I been saying. In context you do learn who is being spoken to. And that is important. Jesus may be speaking to a pharisee but because of the Word being inspired if we the modern reader is acting like a pharisee then yes God is speaking those words to you.
The Word is living and active. A double edged sword. As you read it, it will cut into you no matter what book, Genesis to Revelation.
Does this seriously sound foreign to yall?
Its not. As I have said, all of us accept that when it comes to passages like John 20:23 and Mark 16:17-18.
In fact, other than Roman Catholics, I would suspect many of us may not even be aware that John 20:23 is in the Bible. I can learn from that verse, because I can understand why Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts after Peter questioned them. I just don't go around taking that instruction as written to me.
In fact, other than Roman Catholics, I would suspect many of us may not even be aware that John 20:23 is in the Bible. I can learn from that verse, because I can understand why Ananias and Sapphira died in Acts after Peter questioned them. I just don't go around taking that instruction as written to me.
Sure....
Genesis 3:15
Passover
Lifted Brazen Serpent
Sacrifices
Scapegoat
and on and on and on......
JOB understood the resurrection and at what day he would stand again genius......
Get over the fact that what you peddle is false.....Grace is woven through the whole bible.....and the WHOLE bible testifies of CHRIST and points to him...the fact that you argue against this truth speaks volumes about you
Genesis 3:15
Passover
Lifted Brazen Serpent
Sacrifices
Scapegoat
and on and on and on......
JOB understood the resurrection and at what day he would stand again genius......
Get over the fact that what you peddle is false.....Grace is woven through the whole bible.....and the WHOLE bible testifies of CHRIST and points to him...the fact that you argue against this truth speaks volumes about you
Isnt this what we typically do? Does your church not baptize? Another good discipline when understanding scripture is to not use 1 verse to build a theology. We have to take all scripture on baptism to build a accurate picture of what baptism is and is it important.
Baptism is symbolic to the washing away of ones sins just as God used water to wash the sinfulness of the world during the great flood. In context with all other scriptures it is clear baptism doesn't save. But yes one must repent to even submit in faith.
Baptism is symbolic to the washing away of ones sins just as God used water to wash the sinfulness of the world during the great flood. In context with all other scriptures it is clear baptism doesn't save. But yes one must repent to even submit in faith.