Not By Works

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Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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How is getting drunk, cheating on his wife, and abusing his dog righteous works of faith? How do those things validate his faith as the faith that justifies? If he had the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works he would not be living in that life style.
Did Jesus Christ die for all sins, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit notwithstanding?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,478
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I could post many, many verses declaring the faith of Jesus Christ. Are you saying you justify your own self by your own faith? Did Christ not have faith in His Father and was completely obedient even to the point of death?
Sounds like one of those KJV only arguments. In Galatians 2:16 (KJV) we read - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Yet numerous other translations read:

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV) - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (ESV) yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB) - nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NIV) - know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Sounds like one of those KJV only arguments. In Galatians 2:16 (KJV) we read - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Yet numerous other translations read:

Galatians 2:16 (NKJV) - knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (ESV) yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB) - nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 2:16 (NIV) - know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
Yep, the new versions leave out the faith of Jesus Christ and convince people it's their own faith that justifies. A blatant lie from the great deceiver.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
God is not going to save you if you do not have faith to say yes lord
his work saves you but he does not force his gift on you
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Did Jesus Christ die for all sins, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit notwithstanding?
blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unforgivable in this age and in the age to come. so i dont think Jesus died for that. otherwise it wouldnt be "unforgivable" sin
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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What is this faith of Jesus?
A faith that Jesus starts in an individual's heart and makes it to grow to trust him more?

I'm reminded of that hymn "Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus" and that part in the song" oh for grace to trust him more"
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Christ's obedience to His Father as He lived and died. His faith never wavered. What about your faith? Does it waiver throughout your life?
You do understand that faith has to be in something/ someone....it is not some abstract notion that just hangs in the air unconnected.

And we have "faith" for different things at different times.

So your personal question which I doubt I would answer is far tooooo vague.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
A faith that Jesus starts in an individual's heart and makes it to grow to trust him more?

I'm reminded of that hymn "Tis So Sweet to Trust in Jesus" and that part in the song" oh for grace to trust him more"
Amen..... "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen"

How powerful is that!
Faith is assurance
It is the real seeing!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Did Jesus Christ die for all sins, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit notwithstanding?
Yes, He died for all sins, except unrepentant blasphemy of the Spirit, of course.

But for your example, we're just going by what the Bible says.
The person who is living in sin is not born again.
If you told me he was struggling with those things, that would be a different story.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You do understand that faith has to be in something/ someone....it is not some abstract notion that just hangs in the air unconnected.

And we have "faith" for different things at different times.

So your personal question which I doubt I would answer is far tooooo vague.
Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

What's the evidence of Christ's faith? Look no further than His obedience unto death, even the death of the cross.

For by it, by faith, the elders obtained a good report. Jesus, by faith, obtained a good report.

The faith of Jesus Christ is God's righteousness. Jesus knew no sin.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:


Galatians 3
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Before the faith of Christ came, we were kept under the law. People had faith before the law and under the law, but the faith of Jesus Christ was not revealed until His resurrection.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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Yes, He died for all sins, except unrepentant blasphemy of the Spirit, of course.

But for your example, we're just going by what the Bible says.
The person who is living in sin is not born again.
If you told me he was struggling with those things, that would be a different story.
So a person who has faith in Jesus, bears fruit in some aspects of life but is sinful in other aspects does not have salvation?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
Just as physical circumcision in a putting off of the flesh was the sign in the old covenant of being in covenant with God, so spiritual circumcision in a putting off of the deeds of the flesh is the sign in this New Covenant of being in covenant with God.

No putting off of the deeds of the flesh in circumcision means you have not been justified in Christ and are not in covenant with God and are not protected from the wrath to come.
Salvation creates us unto new people. We are justified through the blood of Christ upon our acceptance of Him as our Lord and Savior.

You would seem to live under the law where even the least in fracture would place us back under the wrath of God. Where is your security?
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
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North Carolina
“You did not choose Me, but I chose you.”—John 15:16

“I have loved you with an eternal love.”—Jeremiah 31:3

“If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”—1 John 1:9

“But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten…of God.”—John 1:12-13

“And I give to them eternal life, and they shall by no means perish forever, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.”—John 10:28

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and him who comes to Me I shall by no means cast out.”—John 6:37

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God's Word is my security. I believe Him. Nothing can snatch our souls away from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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For by it, by faith, the elders obtained a good report. Jesus, by faith, obtained a good report.
The elders and Jesus got good reports?

I never got one.
There was always must try harder must work harder.

It's a shame that an awful lot Christians say that as well.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Yep, the new versions leave out the faith of Jesus Christ and convince people it's their own faith that justifies. A blatant lie from the great deceiver.

Sounds like you bought into the KJV Only, lie. You do know that KJV was not a TRANSLATION, it was a Paraphrase from older English Versions, to update the Language, and correct some of the KNOW ERRORS in those Older Versions. Their translation team ADMITTED IT, in the 1611 Original Preface to the KJV.


You really NEED to READ the 1611 Original Preface of the 1611 KJV, they admitted that they paraphrased lots of it from earlier English Versions. I think you will find you have put the KJV on WAY TOO HIGH OF A PEDISTAL. Here, I have pulled some excerpts out for you:​

1611 ORIGINAL PREFACE


The Translators To The Reader
Zeale to promote the common good, whether it be by devising any thing our selves, or revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . .​

This may be supposed to bee some cause, why the Translation of the Seventie was allowed to passe for currant. . . . he holdeth the Authours thereof not onely for Interpreters, but also for Prophets in some respect: and Justinian the Emperour enjoyning the Jewes his subjects to use specially the Translation of the Seventie, rendreth this reason thereof, because they were as it were enlighted with propheticall grace. . . .​
. . . This is the translation of the Seventy Interpreters, com- monly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gen- tiles by written preaching . . . It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction; . . .​
{ KNOWN ERRORS in the Septuagint }

. . . that the Seventy were Interpreters, they were not Prophets; they did many things well, as learned men; but yet as men they stumbled and fell, one while through oversight, another while through ignorance, yea, sometimes they may be noted to add to the Original, and sometimes to take from it; . . .

But now the Latin Translations were too many to be all good, for they were infinite (Latini Interprets nullo modo numerari possunt, saith S. Augustine.) [S. Augustin. de doctr. Christ. lib 2 cap II]. Again they were not out of the Hebrew fountain (we speak of the Latin Translations of the Old Testament) but out of the Greek stream, therefore the Greek being not altogether clear, the Latin derived from it must needs be muddy. . . .

But now the Latine Translations were too many to be all good, . . . Now the Church of Rome . . . Yea, so unwilling they are to communicate the Scriptures to the peoples understanding in any sort, that they are not ashamed to confesse, that wee forced them to translate it into English against their wills. . . .​

. . . the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also, if anything be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the original, the same may be corrected, and the truth set in place. { KNOWN ERRORS } . . .​

. . . and the later thoughts are thought to be the wiser: so, if we building upon their foundation that went before us, and being holpen by their labours, doe endevour to make that better which they left so good; . . .​

the same will shine as gold more brightly, being rubbed and polished; also if any thing be halting, or superfluous, or not so agreeable to the originall, the same may bee corrected, and the trueth set in place. . . .​

Now to the later we answere; that wee doe not deny, nay wee affirme and avow, that the very meanest {poorest} translation of the Bible in English, set foorth by men of our profession (for wee have seene none of theirs of the whole Bible as yet) containeth the word of God, nay, is the word of God. . . .​

Yet before we end, we must answere a third cavill and objection of theirs against us, for altering and amending our Translations [sic] so oft; wherein truely they deale hardly, and strangely with us. { The very same thing you do to MODERN Translations. } For to whom ever was it imputed for a fault (by such as were wise) to goe over that which hee had done, and to amend it where he saw cause? . . .​

. . . Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .​


{ That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an ACTUAL Translation from the original languages. }
(http://www.ccel.org/bible/kjv/preface/pref1.htm)

There is the website that has the 1611 Original Preface to the 1611 KJV posted on it. I have read it completely 4 times.

That should give you a HEALTHY NEW RESPECT FOR MODERN ACTUAL TRANSLATIONS.

Yes they corrected some of the errors in Older English Versions, that leaned heavily on the LATIN BIBLE and the SEPTUAGINT with Known Errors. HOWEVER, they also missed some of the UNKNOWN ERRORS by paraphrasing from the Older English Versions.