Not By Works

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EleventhHour

Guest
so it is ok to gossip and try to belittle? The topic was Hebrew 10:26.
Rather than go down the path you chose here why not just concede that you don't have any rebuttal and stop grieving the Holy Spirit.
I gave an excellent rebuttal...still.waiting

Maybe you have counter?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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so it is ok to gossip and try to belittle? The topic was Hebrew 10:26. Rather than go down the path you chose here why not just concede that you don't have any rebuttal and stop grieving the Holy Spirit.Now you will try to justify your ill act.
So you refer to thoroughly refuting your arguments in your posts as gossip and belittling? You seem to be very thin skinned and you like to play the victim.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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Spoken to the saved They are believers

Verse 30, the Lord will Judge His people.

Chapter showing a clear contrast between the Old Testament sacrifices and the sacrifice of Christ.

Old testament sacrifices were weak could not take away sins and they were a perpetual sacrifice ... Jesus is once for all, can take away sins and cleanse.

The latter part of this chapter is about how God deals with His own people, how does He deal with His own people through chastening/scourging as He deal with sons.

If we sin willfully there remains no more sacrifice for sins.

Two types of sins those done in ignorance and those that are done willfully, presumptuously, with full knowledge. This is clearly seen in the Old Testament.

No offering for the presumptuously committed sins.

However those sins were still dealt with...NOT .....NOT with loss of salvation but with chastening

Verse 30 makes it clear...

30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[b]

God warns He will judge and we will receive recompense on this earth. Salvation is everlasting!!

28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Pay attention here......

There remained no more sacrifice for sin… meaning Jesus paid for all sin.
But is we do sin willfully God will deal with us in this life time.
As I stated loss of salvation is never, ever in view.


You cannot use these verses again your argument is dead.
No my friend Read a bit further please. A Fate worse than the dying under two or three witnesses. Total Destruction.

"But the just shall live by faith;" "and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him." But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39 LITV)

The KJV translates the Greek word for destruction to perdition.

The Websters dictionary defines perdition as utter destruction.

Here is an excerpt from The BDAG Lexicon in regards to the Greek word and how it should be understood. It has a section highlighted in bold to show where the section on Heb 10:39 is.

ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ (s. ἀπόλλυμι; Demades [IV B.C.]: Or. Att. II 52 p. 313 in the sense ‘loss’; later writers; ins, pap, oft. LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Jos., Ar., Just.; Mel., P.).
the destruction that one causes, destruction, waste trans. (Aristot., EN 4, 1, 1120a 2; Polyb. 6, 11a, 10 opp. τήρησις; PTebt 276, 34) εἰς τί ἡ ἀ. αὕτη τ. μύρου; why this waste of ointment? Mk 14:4; cp. Mt 26:8.
the destruction that one experiences, annihilation both complete and in process, ruin intr. (so usu. LXX; EpArist 167; Philo, Aet. M. 20; 74; Jos., Ant. 15, 62, Vi. 272; TestDan 4:5; Ar. 13, 8; Just., D. 56, 5; Mel.; but also in Aristot., Prob. 29, 14, 952b 26; Polyb., Plut., Epict. et al. [Nägeli 35]; Diod. S. 15, 48, 1 with φθορά; Herm. Wr. 12, 16; PGM 4, 1247f παραδίδωμι σε εἰς τὸ μέλαν χάος ἐν τ. ἀπωλείαις) Ac 25:16 v.l.; AcPl Ha 4, 16. (w. ὄλεθρον) βυθίζειν εἰς ὄ. καὶ ἀ. plunge into utter destruction 1 Ti 6:9; πρὸς τ. ἰδίαν αὐτῶν ἀ. to their own ruin 2 Pt 3:16; (w. πλάνη) 2 Cl 1:7 (Ar. 13:8). Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked: Mt 7:13; εἰς ἀ. ὑπάγειν go to destr. Rv 17:8, 11. (Opp. περιποίησις ψυχῆς) Hb 10:39. (Opp. σωτηρία) Phil 1:28. ἡμέρα κρίσεως καὶ ἀπωλείας (Job 21:30) τ. ἀσεβῶν ἀνθρώπων day of judgment and (consequent) destruction of wicked men 2 Pt 3:7. Hence the end of the wicked is described as ἀ.: τὸ ἀργύριόν σου σὺν σοὶ εἴη εἰς ἀπώλειαν to hell with you and your money (Phillips) Ac 8:20 (for the phrasing cp. Da 2:5 and 3:96 Theod.); ὧν τὸ τέλος ἀ. Phil 3:19. σκεύη ὀργῆς, κατηρτισμένα εἰς ἀ. objects of (God’s) anger, ready for destruction Ro 9:22 (Is 54:16). It will come quickly 2 Pt 2:1; is not sleeping vs. 3 (on the topic cp. Od. 2, 281–84). Appears as a consequence of death (cp. Job 28, 22): ὁ θάνατος ἀ. ἔχει αἰώνιον Hs 6, 2, 4; God laughs at it 1 Cl 57:4 (Pr 1:26). Those destined to destruction are υἱοὶ τῆς ἀ. J 17:12; ApcPt 1:2. The Lawless One is also υἱὸς τῆς ἀ. 2 Th 2:3. αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας heresies that lead to destr. 2 Pt 2:1; δόγματα τῆς ἀ. ApcPt 1:1.—DELG s.v. ὄλλυμι. M-M. TW.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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No my friend Read a bit further please. A Fate worse than the dying under two or three witnesses. Total Destruction.

"But the just shall live by faith;" "and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him." But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:38-39 LITV)

The KJV translates the Greek word for destruction to perdition.

The Websters dictionary defines perdition as utter destruction.

Here is an excerpt from The BDAG Lexicon in regards to the Greek word and how it should be understood. It has a section highlighted in bold to show where the section on Heb 10:39 is.

ἀπώλεια, ας, ἡ (s. ἀπόλλυμι; Demades [IV B.C.]: Or. Att. II 52 p. 313 in the sense ‘loss’; later writers; ins, pap, oft. LXX, pseudepigr., Philo, Jos., Ar., Just.; Mel., P.).
the destruction that one causes, destruction, waste trans. (Aristot., EN 4, 1, 1120a 2; Polyb. 6, 11a, 10 opp. τήρησις; PTebt 276, 34) εἰς τί ἡ ἀ. αὕτη τ. μύρου; why this waste of ointment? Mk 14:4; cp. Mt 26:8.
the destruction that one experiences, annihilation both complete and in process, ruin intr. (so usu. LXX; EpArist 167; Philo, Aet. M. 20; 74; Jos., Ant. 15, 62, Vi. 272; TestDan 4:5; Ar. 13, 8; Just., D. 56, 5; Mel.; but also in Aristot., Prob. 29, 14, 952b 26; Polyb., Plut., Epict. et al. [Nägeli 35]; Diod. S. 15, 48, 1 with φθορά; Herm. Wr. 12, 16; PGM 4, 1247f παραδίδωμι σε εἰς τὸ μέλαν χάος ἐν τ. ἀπωλείαις) Ac 25:16 v.l.; AcPl Ha 4, 16. (w. ὄλεθρον) βυθίζειν εἰς ὄ. καὶ ἀ. plunge into utter destruction 1 Ti 6:9; πρὸς τ. ἰδίαν αὐτῶν ἀ. to their own ruin 2 Pt 3:16; (w. πλάνη) 2 Cl 1:7 (Ar. 13:8). Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked: Mt 7:13; εἰς ἀ. ὑπάγειν go to destr. Rv 17:8, 11. (Opp. περιποίησις ψυχῆς) Hb 10:39. (Opp. σωτηρία) Phil 1:28. ἡμέρα κρίσεως καὶ ἀπωλείας (Job 21:30) τ. ἀσεβῶν ἀνθρώπων day of judgment and (consequent) destruction of wicked men 2 Pt 3:7. Hence the end of the wicked is described as ἀ.: τὸ ἀργύριόν σου σὺν σοὶ εἴη εἰς ἀπώλειαν to hell with you and your money (Phillips) Ac 8:20 (for the phrasing cp. Da 2:5 and 3:96 Theod.); ὧν τὸ τέλος ἀ. Phil 3:19. σκεύη ὀργῆς, κατηρτισμένα εἰς ἀ. objects of (God’s) anger, ready for destruction Ro 9:22 (Is 54:16). It will come quickly 2 Pt 2:1; is not sleeping vs. 3 (on the topic cp. Od. 2, 281–84). Appears as a consequence of death (cp. Job 28, 22): ὁ θάνατος ἀ. ἔχει αἰώνιον Hs 6, 2, 4; God laughs at it 1 Cl 57:4 (Pr 1:26). Those destined to destruction are υἱοὶ τῆς ἀ. J 17:12; ApcPt 1:2. The Lawless One is also υἱὸς τῆς ἀ. 2 Th 2:3. αἱρέσεις ἀπωλείας heresies that lead to destr. 2 Pt 2:1; δόγματα τῆς ἀ. ApcPt 1:1.—DELG s.v. ὄλλυμι. M-M. TW.
True.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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EleventhHour

Guest
It’s his tactic sis, he does not know how to be honorable and his whole argument is based on attacking gyour credibility by claiming things Not true

best to just move on and let him play his game
One last reply...got this, OSAS can never be refuted :)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
He plays the same games he always does. He focuses on one passage ignores the rest of scripture. then attacks you

it’s why it’s a waste of time bro
More baiting nonsense, If you can't refute the post say nothing.
More comments about people, shame really. Not at all honoring God and His Christ. Nothing relevant in relation to things posted. Heb. 10:26 my friend.
Prove the points of the post wrong and I will recant.


It is not just a people that have been taught about Jesus and refuse to believe in Him. Hebrews 10:26 is about those who are experiencing salvation and then they throw it all away, Sinning willfully, trodding underfoot the Son of GOD, doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace which they have been Given.

Starting in verse 10. Here look please.

By the which will we are sanctified (Hebrews 9:12-14 A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins, : But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof (to this perfectedness) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant (perfectedness of them that are sanctified) that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
(Heb 10:4-16 KJV)

WE are sanctified. For by one offering he hath PERFECTED them (the WE) that are SANCTIFIED. How are WE that are SANCTIFIED PERFECTED? To this (whereof) the Holy Ghost also is a witness to US. HE saith, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

Having therefore, brethren (the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED), boldness into the entrance into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) , through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God (the Body of Christ, the Temple of God through the veil that is His flesh); Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience (the taking away of sin), and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised. And let us (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of OURSELVES (the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we ( OURSELVES, the BRETHREN, the WE, them whom have been PERFECTED and SANCTIFIED) are sinning wilfully (Not a single act but a state of being, who we are) after that we have received the knowledge of the truth ( A purged conscience, sanctified to the purifying of the flesh (vs 9:13) from dead works, a purged conscience, the inner man renewed (vs 9:14), the taking away of sin (10:4) to serve the Living God, Perfected, Gods Laws in the Heart and mind through Christ), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? (which the been given)
(Heb 10:19-29)
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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No I was a Moderator. The site was the same as this one. It almost mirrors it in regards to the discussions. This one has more forums for just fellowship though. That is nice to see
if I was on a site that you were a mod, you would kick me off.
and, that's o.k., I would toss you if I were a mod.


there would be no judeaizing tolerated.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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You need to study a LOT more:

Acts 18:6-17 (NIV)
6 But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles." {The Bema in the AGORA, would have been the ideal place for Paul to preach to the pagan Gentiles.}
7 Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God.
8 Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.
9 One night the Lord spoke to Paul in a vision: "Do not be afraid; keep on speaking, do not be silent.
10 For I am with you, and no one is going to attack and harm you, because I have many people in this city."
11 So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.
12 While Gallio was proconsul of Achaia, the Jews made a united attack on Paul and brought him into court.
13 "This man," they charged, "is persuading the people to worship God in ways contrary to the law."
14 Just as Paul was about to speak, Gallio said to the Jews, "If you Jews were making a complaint about some misdemeanor or serious crime, it would be reasonable for me to listen to you.
15 But since it involves questions about words and names and your own law--settle the matter yourselves. I will not be a judge of such things."
16 So he had them ejected from the court.
17 Then they all turned on Sosthenes the synagogue ruler and beat him in front of the court. But Gallio showed no concern whatever.

About 50% of the early Church, especially in Corinth, used to go to the Synagogue. The Church at Corinth, used to have LOVE FEASTS on Saturday, and Paul Actually started out TEACHING in the Synagogue, for almost the first Year, and When they started to object, Paul moved Next Door the house of Titius Justus, a Jewish convert, which served as their meeting place until they had enough money to build a Church. So some of the JEWS would attend the Synagogue Meeting, and then stop in at the LOVE FEAST, and Listen as Paul taught the Scriptures.


View attachment 210844

Corinth was destroyed by an earthquake in 856 AD, with an estimated Magnitude 8 earthquake. Recently an Archaeologist found a stone face down on the Lechaion Road, near the building I marked Synagogue of the Hebrews. Which had remained unnoticed because it just looked like another crumbled stone from the backside. When they finally flipped the Heavy Stone over, it was inscribed: SYNAGOGUE OF THE HEBREWS, in their language. So that pinpointed the building that had probably been the Synagogue, so the building next door to the north, had to be the house of Titius Justus, in my estimation. It doubled as home Church, during Paul's First visit to Corinth, after they got ordered out of the Synagogue. Perhaps there was enough time to build a Church, by the time Paul wrote 2 Corinthians.
Have you addressed my point?

To put it in another way, imagine you are a Jew during the period in Acts who believes in Jesus. Will you go away with the idea that you are dead to the Law?

What will James and the elders say to you if you tell them you are not going to circumcise your children anymore because you heard Paul saying to the gentiles in Galatians that he is dead to the law?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Read the passage.
Paul is using himself to show the gentile Galatians that not even Jews have to keep the law for justification.
Just read the emboldened parts, then read the whole context if you need to. It plainly says Jews are also dead to the law:

Galatians 2:15-16,19-21

15We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

19For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Have you addressed my point?

To put it in another way, imagine you are a Jew during the period in Acts who believes in Jesus. Will you go away with the idea that you are dead to the Law?

What will James and the elders say to you if you tell them you are not going to circumcise your children anymore because you heard Paul saying to the gentiles in Galatians that he is dead to the law?