Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

garee · Feb 1, 2020

He is still speaking in the hearts of men that reign with him in the same last days .The last day has not arrived.

The thing about the moon and sun does apply to our physical realm "the temporal" .The temporal is needed when rightly diving the word of God. It reveals the spiritual or the gospel hid from natural man. That seen is used to reveal the unseen eternal gospel;.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

It applies to the spiritual realm as a unseen law of faith . Parables do not make the literal without effect. It can add to it possibly to enrich. Like Manna taste like honey. Eat just enough to keep in mind that the better thing that accompanies salvation is he will not forget the good works we offer towards his name. No self edification like the many in Mathew 7.

It would appear the glory of God as the presence of God. Is the light in verse 1 .of Genesis 1. God is light .God giving his signature of his glory :."And it was Good". That glory would seemed to have departed in day 3. In day 4 for it would seem the corruption time keepers began its usage for Day and night.. . called "under the sun"

In the new order the spiritual use of the literal Sun and moon was given to complete the doctrine. No more night.

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. Revelation 21:22-25

garee · Feb 1, 2020

The verse was spoken from the standpoint the last days. . . the whole new testament era., a unknow. . . not needed to know. We are not to be of those who number comparing their flesh to their flesh as those not wise.

Jesus as the Son of man was the exception .Faith is not given in respect to what they eyes see. The window of opportunity ended when Christ said in 2 Corinthians 5:16. . . even though some did know him after what the eyes see from then on no more do we know him according to the flesh.

Peter in that time frame (Son of man) was forgiven of Blasphemy that he performed in Mathew 16.

When he disappeared the door was shut. Today blasphemy against the unseen Holy Place of faith is not forgivable and will not in the new heavens and earth. The new born again generation to come.

azamzimtoti · Feb 1, 2020

garee said:

That's not what John and Peter state:

(Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams )

Peter's "last days" turned into the last hour as John was writing:

(1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. )

So what are we in now? The last nanosecond?

crossnote · Feb 1, 2020

PlainWord said:

My point was that there will be an actual kingdom coming...not one that is invisible and already here such as the Amills teach.

garee · Feb 1, 2020

azamzimtoti said:

Yes there are many antichrists even today .

We are in the last hour as days or called last days. He it would seem does not use the phrase "last hours" plural. . or last minutes, or last nanoseconds. It is the last hour as part of the last days. The last day. . . The end of time.

The Holy Spirit is still pouring out his Spirit sending out prophets as apostles to declare His gospel .

The literal day or hour no man knows. No need for it with those who walk by faith. They can watch like Noah but he is still coming as a thief in the night when not expected. The expected is not revealed .Again no need for it.

garee · Feb 1, 2020

crossnote said:

I don't think they preach it is already here . They are not of the number as those who number days and people . Believers are still reigning with him of earth as ambassadors from a foreign land . The new heavenly Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ. And his kingdom does not come by observation. That kind of three way street of confusion would be after the god of this world, the father of lies .

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Those who do remain alive in their flesh on the last day will be changed along with the ones dead asleep. the last trump "Rise receive the end of your faith " in the twinkling of the eye of faith.

PlainWord · Feb 1, 2020

crossnote said:

Luke 17: 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation. 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

Please reconcile your view with the above concrete statement of Christ.

crossnote · Feb 1, 2020

garee said:

I don't think they preach it is already here . They are not of the number as those who number days and people . Believers are still reigning with him of earth as ambassadors from a foreign land . The new heavenly Jerusalem prepared as the bride of Christ. And his kingdom does not come by observation. That kind of three way street of confusion would be after the god of this world, the father of lies .

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Those who do remain alive in their flesh on the last day will be changed along with the ones dead asleep. the last trump "Rise receive the end of your faith " in the twinkling of the eye of faith.

Many Amills will say that there is no physical/literal 1000 years but that it began at the cross and continues spiritually for an indefinite period of time. Do some study on their position.

crossnote · Feb 1, 2020

PlainWord said:

The correct translation should read, "the kingdom of God is within among you.”

Jesus would never tell the hostile Pharisees (v.20) that the Kingdom was 'within' them. Jesus was not a New Ager.
He was referring to Himself and His works.

azamzimtoti · Feb 2, 2020

crossnote said:

Strongs

G1787 entos en-tos'

from G1722;

inside (adverb or noun).

KJV: within

The Greek entos is also used in

(Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.)

I don't think you can emphatically state that PLW is wrong.

crossnote · Feb 2, 2020

azamzimtoti said:

It wouldn't make sense to tell those Pharisees who were vehemently opposing Jesus that the Kingdom of God was within them. It makes better sense to say 'among' them as Jesus stood among them.

Nehemiah6 · Feb 2, 2020

crossnote said:

For those who were saved it was within them. For the enemies of Christ it was among them. There is no conflict or contradiction here.

Nehemiah6 · Feb 2, 2020

Amillennialism stems from the seriously flawed idea that while you may interpret the Bible in its plain literal sense for Gospel truth and doctrine, you must NOT do so when it comes to Bible prophecy. You must make sure all prophecy is allegorical and must not be taken literally. That God really meant the Church when He spoke about Israel and its future. NOW HOW FOOLISH IS THAT? Then we have the even more foolish ideas of Preterism (everything was fulfilled in the first century).

PlainWord · Feb 2, 2020

crossnote said:

What about the part about the kingdom not coming with observation?

PlainWord · Feb 2, 2020

crossnote said:

Among, within, the point is the kingdom is invisible. It is not a tangible, concrete place or thing. It's not like you are standing far off and seeing this big city with high walls in the distance. It isn't a place you can go to and enter like the cities of our day or any day. Having said that, so what then is the Kingdom of God???

The answer is quite simple. A good way to think of it is like a membership in a society although you don't get a certificate or plague. Instead, you get something much more valuable - eternal life. You get the indwelling of the Lord. People great and small, rich and poor, weak and strong, people of every nation, race or creed are invited in. The only requirement for membership is repentance and acceptance of Christ. The phrase, "Accept Jesus into your heart" is a really good way to describe it.

PlainWord · Feb 2, 2020

Nehemiah6 said:

Accept the NT prophesies, most of which were also unfulfilled OT prophesies, were fulfilled in the first century. What, in your mind, wasn't fulfilled back then? The phrase "this generation" is found 19 times in the NT and in each instance it referred to the generation that was alive right then. Do you know how many times the phrase "that generation" is used? ONCE, in Heb 3:10 when Moses's generation was clearly the one in focus. Oh, and BTW, the Heb 3 passage mentions the 40 years they were wandering in punishment. How many years did Jesus' generation have before their temple and city were destroyed, give or take? 40!!!

Here are the 19 usages of "this generation" in all forms. I challenge you to show me which of these refers to a future generation some 100+ generations later, and it needs to be clear that it is referring to a distant generation.

Matthew 11:16
“But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions,

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 12:42
The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Matthew 12:45
Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Matthew 23:36
Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Mark 8:12
But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.”

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Mark 13:30
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Luke 7:31
And the Lord said, “To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like?

Luke 11:29
[ Seeking a Sign ] And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.

Luke 11:30
For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation.

Luke 11:31
The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Luke 11:32
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Luke 11:50
that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,

Luke 11:51
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

Luke 17:25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Luke 21:32
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

Acts 2:40
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”

PlainWord · Feb 2, 2020

Jesus describes His own generation as; wicked, adulterous and sinful, evil and perverse. Those are strong words. Consider the crimes of that generation. They chose a thief over their Messiah. They acknowledged Caesar as their only king. They put to death the Son of God in the most abusive and horrific way, they spat on Him, but a crown of thorns on Him, they beat Him before they hung Him on a tree. They stole from the poor to fatten themselves, they sold priesthoods to the highest bidder. They were in an adulterous affair with pagan Rome. Later, they killed each other indiscriminately. They ate their own babies. They had gay orgies in the temple. The list goes on and on. When God speaks of this kind of evil, one should expect Him to address it as He did in the past with Israel, with Babylon, with Edom, with Sodom, etc. But don't take my word for it. Josephus, who was there says this:

Jerusalem, a city that had been liable to so many miseries during this siege, that, had it always enjoyed as much happiness from its first foundation, it would certainly have been the envy of the world. Nor did it on any other account so much deserve these sore misfortunes, as by producing such a generation of men as were the occasions of this its overthrow...."We have certainly had God for our assistant in this war..."For they foretold that this city should be then taken when somebody shall begin the slaughter of his own countrymen. And are not both the city and the entire temple now full of the dead bodies of your countrymen? It is God, therefore, it is God himself who is bringing on this fire, to purge that city and temple by means of the Romans, and is going to pluck up this city, which is full of your pollutions."

garee · Feb 2, 2020

crossnote said:

Exactly the thousand years is not literal but signified according to the instructions for rightly dividing. Verse one chapter one Revelation The one standard for the whole book that the literalist most ignore.

The thousand with again is a unknow represents the last days which began when Christ said; "it is finished". The time of reformation had come.

We walk by faith not of those who number days or people. Jesus informs us they are not wise following the wisdom of this world

Christ will come as a thief in the night .Our responsibility is to be ready .Not to walk by sight. No sign as a wonder as a source of faith was given or needed to be given . Signs of the time are different .The Holy Spirit would not teach us how to walk by faith and then say number the days and the people. which opposes walking by faith (the unseen eternal)

For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. But we will not boast of things without our measure, but according to the measure of the rule which God hath distributed to us, a measure to reach even unto you. 2 Corinthians
10:12-13

Again the same with people like the 144, 000 a number that represents the elect of all nations signified as born again Israel. All Israel is not born again Isaiah or the final new name God named his bride Christian.

garee · Feb 2, 2020

PlainWord said:

Accept the NT prophesies, most of which were also unfulfilled OT prophesies, were fulfilled in the first century. What, in your mind, wasn't fulfilled back then? The phrase "this generation" is found 19 times in the NT and in each instance it referred to the generation that was alive right then. Do you know how many times the phrase "that generation" is used? ONCE, in Heb 3:10 when Moses's generation was clearly the one in focus. Oh, and BTW, the Heb 3 passage mentions the 40 years they were wandering in punishment. How many years did Jesus' generation have before their temple and city were destroyed, give or take? 40!!!

Here are the 19 usages of "this generation" in all forms. I challenge you to show me which of these refers to a future generation some 100+ generations later, and it needs to be clear that it is referring to a distant generation.

Matthew 11:16
“But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions,

Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Matthew 12:42
The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Matthew 12:45
Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.”

Matthew 23:36
Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Matthew 24:34
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Mark 8:12
But He sighed deeply in His spirit, and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Assuredly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.”

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Mark 13:30
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Luke 7:31
And the Lord said, “To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like?

Luke 11:29
[ Seeking a Sign ] And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, “This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet.

Luke 11:30
For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation.

Luke 11:31
The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Luke 11:32
The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

Luke 11:50
that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation,

Luke 11:51
from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

Luke 17:25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

Luke 21:32
Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place.

Acts 2:40
And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation.”

Yes, "this generation" represents the "new testament generation", the generation we are in .It will pass away on the last day .

You could say marked by the Son of man, Jesus the end of the genealogy. That book is closed and sealed opening the way for this generation.

Matthew 1:1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

PlainWord · Feb 2, 2020

garee said:

Good grief. No it doesn't. It doesn't represent anything other than the generation Jesus lived in. It's plain and simple.

Amillennialists...Here's a chance to state your case.

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