Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
279
354
63
YOU said he ministry deals mainly with Genesis. So does he teach a Biblical CREATION, specifically the Six literal Earth Days to CREATE everything that exists ? ? ? Or does he teach something else.

That is supported by Scripture:

Genesis 1:5 (NKJV)
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:8 (NKJV)
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:13 (NKJV)
13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 1:19 (NKJV)
19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 1:23 (NKJV)
23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Genesis 1:31 (NKJV)
31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


That also proves why the Jews believe, the start of a new day begins when the first three stars are visible in the evening near sunset.


Colossians 1:16-20 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross— whether things on earth or things in heaven.
I said the HISTORICAL AUTHENTICITY of Genesis was AAAAAAAAAA(in the English language, this article implies the existence of others in it's periphery) primary focus. I refuse to debate with you.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,757
4,120
113
63
HAHAHHA love you Rose....keep swinging sis....
Let me just see I have it right because it is very important...

When God calls us , when He saves us , He sanctifies us as in He sets us apart , so right there we are sanctified , is this correct ? , then sanctification is a daily process making us more like Christ , is this right ?
...xox...
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
279
354
63
YOU said he ministry deals mainly with Genesis. So does he teach a Biblical CREATION, specifically the Six literal Earth Days to CREATE everything that exists ? ? ? Or does he teach something else.

That is supported by Scripture:

Genesis 1:5 (NKJV)
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:8 (NKJV)
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:13 (NKJV)
13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 1:19 (NKJV)
19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 1:23 (NKJV)
23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Genesis 1:31 (NKJV)
31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


That also proves why the Jews believe, the start of a new day begins when the first three stars are visible in the evening near sunset.


Colossians 1:16-20 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross— whether things on earth or things in heaven.
I'm sorry I reacted poorly and read poorly your statement. Allow me too wire a more appropriate response.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Let me just see I have it right because it is very important...

When God calls us , when He saves us , He sanctifies us as in He sets us apart , so right there we are sanctified , is this correct ? , then sanctification is a daily process making us more like Christ , is this right ?
...xox...
Amen...saves us, justifies us, sanctifies us in Christ positionally and seals us with his Holy Spirit.

THEN the process of our outward transformation begins per Romans 12:1-2 which is a process of daily sanctification in our physical lives...I.E. The outward actions begin to change based upon the inward growth and transformation

The more we are transformed by the renewing of our mind, the greater the outward sanctification of our lives....
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
You think this dream world you live in and the above argument based upon a skewed twisted nonlight argument means jack....no....the above drivel is exactly that...drivel....NO ONE is unsanctified once they have been sanctified forever genius....regardless of how many times you deceitfully twist the context of Hebrews to state such deception...mark my words nolight.....you will see and pay for the above twisted non biblical view.....
More trolling attacks from you




GOD has said not me,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified.

Them that are sanctified are perfected for ever not they are sanctified and perfected forever.

WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."


NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit.

For GOD has said,
"For if WE (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD'S Law in the hearts and minds)"
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given Because GOD has said it must be so.
 

Tellion

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2003
279
354
63
YOU said he ministry deals mainly with Genesis. So does he teach a Biblical CREATION, specifically the Six literal Earth Days to CREATE everything that exists ? ? ? Or does he teach something else.

That is supported by Scripture:

Genesis 1:5 (NKJV)
5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Genesis 1:8 (NKJV)
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

Genesis 1:13 (NKJV)
13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.

Genesis 1:19 (NKJV)
19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Genesis 1:23 (NKJV)
23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Genesis 1:31 (NKJV)
31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


That also proves why the Jews believe, the start of a new day begins when the first three stars are visible in the evening near sunset.


Colossians 1:16-20 (HCSB)
16 For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
18 He is also the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
19 For God was pleased ⌊to have⌋ all His fullness dwell in Him,
20 and through Him to reconcile everything to Himself by making peace through the blood of His cross— whether things on earth or things in heaven.
While the words like "historical authenticity" and "fallibility of radiometric dating" and the fact that we are being fought by proponents of syncretism should have clued you in, he is a six say creationist, as am I. I am unsure why you seek a fight with me.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
More trolling attacks from you




GOD has said not me,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified.

Them that are sanctified are perfected for ever not they are sanctified and perfected forever.

WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."


NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit.

For GOD has said,
"For if WE (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD'S Law in the hearts and minds)"
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given Because GOD has said it must be so.
Do not address me......you have no honest argument because you deny scripture, context and twist the word of GOD........your incessant twist of the word of God is sickening.........!!

Hebrews 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Colossians 3:3 - For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,757
4,120
113
63
Do not address me......you have no honest argument because you deny scripture, context and twist the word of GOD........your incessant twist of the word of God is sickening.........!!

Hebrews 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Colossians 3:3 - For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God
It is soooo clear...xox...
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
It is soooo clear...xox...
Amen.............clear as....as they say down here in AU hahahha

Blows my mind, how many want to devalue JESUS and his promises while peddling a losable position in Christ....it it devilish to so want or push a position that has a lottery style hope which is contrary to the hope the bible gives true believers.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Do not address me......you have no honest argument because you deny scripture, context and twist the word of GOD........your incessant twist of the word of God is sickening.........!!

Hebrews 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Are sanctified amen, Your interpretation of what is meant by once and for all not true.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (upon one occasion only). Not once and forever more.
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

Strong's

ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

Mickelson's

G2178 ἐφάπαξ ephapax (ef-a'-pax) adv.
upon one occasion (only).

Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament by Moulton and Milligan

ἐφάπαξ [page 269]
ἐφάπαξ occurs in the late P Lond 483.88 (A.D. 616) (= II. p. 328). A new form ἀφάπαξ is found in P Flor II. 158.10 (iii/A.D.) in a context which suggests the meaning “at one time” or “all at once”—ἐπέστειλα δὲ καὶ εἰς Ταυρείνου ἵνα κἀκεῖνο ἔλθῃ τὸ ταυρικὸν καὶ ἀφάπαξ τὰ ξ[ύ]λα παρενέχθη εἰ̣ς̣ τη̣ . . . . : but note that Vitelli (Berichtigungsliste i. p. 150) now describes ἀφάπαξ as an error in writing for ἐφ᾽ ἅπαξ.

BDAG

ἐφάπαξ (s. ἅπαξ) adv.
pert. to being simultaneous, at once, at one time (PLond II, 483, 88 p. 328 [616 A.D.]; V, 1708, 242; PFlor 158, 10) ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐ. to more than 500 fellow-believers at once 1 Cor 15:6.
taking place once and to the exclusion of any further occurrence, once for all, once and never again (Eupolis Com. [V B.C.] 175 Kock) Ro 6:10; Hb 7:27; 9:12; 10:10.—M-M. TW. Spicq.


The word is used in the following verses. No where in any of them is it even implied forever and ever: Rom 6:10 Heb 7:27; Heb 9:12; Heb 10:10; 1Co 15:6.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Are sanctified amen, Your interpretation of what is meant by once and for all not true.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (upon one occasion only). Not once and forever more.
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

Strong's

ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

Mickelson's

G2178 ἐφάπαξ ephapax (ef-a'-pax) adv.
upon one occasion (only).

Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament by Moulton and Milligan

ἐφάπαξ [page 269]
ἐφάπαξ occurs in the late P Lond 483.88 (A.D. 616) (= II. p. 328). A new form ἀφάπαξ is found in P Flor II. 158.10 (iii/A.D.) in a context which suggests the meaning “at one time” or “all at once”—ἐπέστειλα δὲ καὶ εἰς Ταυρείνου ἵνα κἀκεῖνο ἔλθῃ τὸ ταυρικὸν καὶ ἀφάπαξ τὰ ξ[ύ]λα παρενέχθη εἰ̣ς̣ τη̣ . . . . : but note that Vitelli (Berichtigungsliste i. p. 150) now describes ἀφάπαξ as an error in writing for ἐφ᾽ ἅπαξ.

BDAG

ἐφάπαξ (s. ἅπαξ) adv.
pert. to being simultaneous, at once, at one time (PLond II, 483, 88 p. 328 [616 A.D.]; V, 1708, 242; PFlor 158, 10) ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐ. to more than 500 fellow-believers at once 1 Cor 15:6.
taking place once and to the exclusion of any further occurrence, once for all, once and never again (Eupolis Com. [V B.C.] 175 Kock) Ro 6:10; Hb 7:27; 9:12; 10:10.—M-M. TW. Spicq.


The word is used in the following verses. No where in any of them is it even implied forever and ever: Rom 6:10 Heb 7:27; Heb 9:12; Heb 10:10; 1Co 15:6.
Like I said...do not address me deceiver until you can be honest with the word of God.......ONCE for ALL and SANCTIFIED, JUSTIFIED and SAVED forever, given ETERNAL LIFE and SEALED unto the day of REDEMPTION....the crap you are peddling is not of GOD.....

end of story nolightbar......!!
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,757
4,120
113
63
Like I said...do not address me deceiver until you can be honest with the word of God.......ONCE for ALL and SANCTIFIED, JUSTIFIED and SAVED forever, given ETERNAL LIFE and SEALED unto the day of REDEMPTION....the crap you are peddling is not of GOD.....

end of story nolightbar......!!
Yes , sanctified , set apart , children of God , not off this world...
Hidden in Christ , cannot be more separated , set apart than that :D
...xox...
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
Like I said...do not address me deceiver until you can be honest with the word of God.......ONCE for ALL and SANCTIFIED, JUSTIFIED and SAVED forever, given ETERNAL LIFE and SEALED unto the day of REDEMPTION....the crap you are peddling is not of GOD.....

end of story nolightbar......!!
You Can't argue against the truth of the Spirit so rather than repent and recant more non sense.

Are sanctified amen, Your interpretation of what is meant by once and for all not true.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (upon one occasion only). Not once and forever more.
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

Strong's

ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

Mickelson's

G2178 ἐφάπαξ ephapax (ef-a'-pax) adv.
upon one occasion (only).

Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament by Moulton and Milligan

ἐφάπαξ [page 269]
ἐφάπαξ occurs in the late P Lond 483.88 (A.D. 616) (= II. p. 328). A new form ἀφάπαξ is found in P Flor II. 158.10 (iii/A.D.) in a context which suggests the meaning “at one time” or “all at once”—ἐπέστειλα δὲ καὶ εἰς Ταυρείνου ἵνα κἀκεῖνο ἔλθῃ τὸ ταυρικὸν καὶ ἀφάπαξ τὰ ξ[ύ]λα παρενέχθη εἰ̣ς̣ τη̣ . . . . : but note that Vitelli (Berichtigungsliste i. p. 150) now describes ἀφάπαξ as an error in writing for ἐφ᾽ ἅπαξ.

BDAG

ἐφάπαξ (s. ἅπαξ) adv.
pert. to being simultaneous, at once, at one time (PLond II, 483, 88 p. 328 [616 A.D.]; V, 1708, 242; PFlor 158, 10) ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐ. to more than 500 fellow-believers at once 1 Cor 15:6.
taking place once and to the exclusion of any further occurrence, once for all, once and never again (Eupolis Com. [V B.C.] 175 Kock) Ro 6:10; Hb 7:27; 9:12; 10:10.—M-M. TW. Spicq.


The word is used in the following verses. No where in any of them is it even implied forever and ever: Rom 6:10 Heb 7:27; Heb 9:12; Heb 10:10; 1Co 15:6.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
You Can't argue against the truth of the Spirit so rather than repent and recant more non sense.

Are sanctified amen, Your interpretation of what is meant by once and for all not true.
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (upon one occasion only). Not once and forever more.
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

Strong's

ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

Mickelson's

G2178 ἐφάπαξ ephapax (ef-a'-pax) adv.
upon one occasion (only).

Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament by Moulton and Milligan

ἐφάπαξ [page 269]
ἐφάπαξ occurs in the late P Lond 483.88 (A.D. 616) (= II. p. 328). A new form ἀφάπαξ is found in P Flor II. 158.10 (iii/A.D.) in a context which suggests the meaning “at one time” or “all at once”—ἐπέστειλα δὲ καὶ εἰς Ταυρείνου ἵνα κἀκεῖνο ἔλθῃ τὸ ταυρικὸν καὶ ἀφάπαξ τὰ ξ[ύ]λα παρενέχθη εἰ̣ς̣ τη̣ . . . . : but note that Vitelli (Berichtigungsliste i. p. 150) now describes ἀφάπαξ as an error in writing for ἐφ᾽ ἅπαξ.

BDAG

ἐφάπαξ (s. ἅπαξ) adv.
pert. to being simultaneous, at once, at one time (PLond II, 483, 88 p. 328 [616 A.D.]; V, 1708, 242; PFlor 158, 10) ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐ. to more than 500 fellow-believers at once 1 Cor 15:6.
taking place once and to the exclusion of any further occurrence, once for all, once and never again (Eupolis Com. [V B.C.] 175 Kock) Ro 6:10; Hb 7:27; 9:12; 10:10.—M-M. TW. Spicq.


The word is used in the following verses. No where in any of them is it even implied forever and ever: Rom 6:10 Heb 7:27; Heb 9:12; Heb 10:10; 1Co 15:6.
I can argue all day long against the devilish drivel you peddle......and like I said...do not address me until you can be honest with the scriptures....

Hebrews 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Colossians 3:3 - For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
It is true, our believing is in vain if Jesus did not Rise from the dead, there were false teachers stating the Resurrection did not happen.

Paul is stressing how essential and pivotal the Resurrection is to the faith.
So you also agree he did raise an interesting point. 1 cor 15: v2 is not about right belief in terms of the one doing the believing. "believed in vain" does not mean someone who gave up believing, nor is that trying to distinguish between genuine believers vs fake believers.

Rather, its about whether the event that one believes did happen, which is Christ did rise from the dead. (vs 12-14).

This is the first time I heard this and it sounds logical.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,487
13,425
113
58
I use it to show you are saved by the gospel if you hold fast the word of the gospel:

"the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Osas reads that to mean true believers will always continue to believe, and that's how you can tell who's really saved (I mean, if you ignore the fact that there is always tomorrow to stop believing and show you weren't really a true believer all along).
But what the passage is plainly saying is you are presently saved if you presently hold fast the word of the gospel.


https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002

That's the simplicity of the gospel. If you really believe right now, then you are saved right now. No complicated and contradictory doctrinal constructs, and weird illogical tests for if you really believe or not, required.
Those who truly believe the gospel hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached. Those who fail to hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached demonstrate that they believed in vain -- without cause or without effect, to no purpose. Simple! For the latter, believing the gospel was never firmly rooted and established from the start and such people are not saved and never were. Hence, they believed in vain. Paul did not say anything about stop believing tomorrow. That is your biased theory. Continuing to hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached is the demonstrative evidence that we are true believers who have been saved and are presently saved. "IF" confirms this. It's not complicated and 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 does not support nosas.

Ephesians 1:13-14 further supports osas. -- In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Praise God! :)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
NO ONE is unsanctified once they have been sanctified forever genius....regardless of how many times you deceitfully twist the context of Hebrews to state such deception.....

Hebrews 10:10 - By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Still nothing but nonsensical attacks.
Nothing in your response shows or in the Text you have shared here shows we are sanctified forever.

Sanctified in the text is past tense as you know. But what you fail to accept is "once for all" does not mean forever and ever it means once and never again.

Here is the definition of the word From the BDAG

ἐφάπαξ (s. ἅπαξ) adv.
pert. to being simultaneous, at once, at one time (PLond II, 483, 88 p. 328 [616 A.D.]; V, 1708, 242; PFlor 158, 10) ἐπάνω πεντακοσίοις ἀδελφοῖς ἐ. to more than 500 fellow-believers at once 1 Cor 15:6.
taking place once and to the exclusion of any further occurrence, once for all, once and never again (Eupolis Com. [V B.C.] 175 Kock) Ro 6:10; Hb 7:27; 9:12; 10:10.—M-M. TW. Spicq.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,487
13,425
113
58
I use it to show you are saved by the gospel if you hold fast the word of the gospel
The message is not - you will be saved (future indicative) if you hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached. It is rather - you have been and now are saved (demonstrative evidence) IF in the future you hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached.