Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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Apparently you know, if they obviously were never saved to begin with, since it is written in John 6:64
For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said,
Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
So when they come to him and say Lord, Lord and say we did what we thought you asked of us he responds, he will profess (speak) unto them, I never knew you.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23
By seeing they see not, and by hearing they hear not lest they be converted and their sins forgiven.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46
And what do you think Jesus was lying about if he is omniscient? Or do you think he doesnt' have the power to save?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25
So they obviously weren't saved. Phuuuh
I never knew them was clear enough....take it up with JESUS when you stand before him!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Me thinks differently.

He died as a result of our sin.
He did this is in order to reconcile us to the father.

Romans 5:1-2

Faith Triumphs in Trouble
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 4:4-7
4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

The first step for salvation is to repent of the sin of unbelief in Jesus that the Holy Spirit came to convict us of. That's why Jesus had to go back to the Father.

We repent of that.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

The first step is to not say Jesus "died to set you free from sinning therefore do not sin"

The first step is to say you are now a child of God, accepted and adopted as his child.
Instill this then discipleship follows.

If a person truly knows their identity in Jesus, the security he offers then as a result of discipleship, help and so on then their natural response will be

"I want to be like you"

That involves wanting sin to decrease and Jesus to increase.
This does not just encompass putting aside deeds of the flesh but walking in the other ways Jesus walked in.

Love.

Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, go the extra mile.
I could stop sinning all I want and seek to do so, but if I have not love then I'm nothing.

The package is not just stop sinning it's all encompassing.
Focus only on stop sinning then you miss the rest.

Focus on Jesus and what he has done and how he walked and what he asks of us as brothers then we have the full package.

Focus on sin only then we can become like the Pharisees.

Simple really but only when you know who you are in Jesus.
How does this fit in with what you just said?

God, have mercy on me, a sinner!14I tell you, this man, rather than the Pharisee, went home justified." - Luke 18:14
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I’d love to talk with him, been battling cancer myself for over two years now.
It has been a while he was battling cancer from agent orange ...in the final stages I am pretty sure he has passed onto glory.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It has been a while he was battling cancer from agent orange ...in the final stages I am pretty sure he has passed onto glory.
My uncle died from it....he fought cancer 7 years and had it whipped with a bone marrow transplant but died due to his heart and lungs failing from all the meds and chemo to kill the cancer........
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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LOL, so he used the term 'knew' in the Biblical sense? (You might consider John 8:44.)

So he knows that those who
prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matt 7:22
as his enemies?


49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
Luke 9:49-50

I am sorry this got to be a long post, but I felt the LORD calling me, for some time now, that HE wanted me to explain what HE meant by KNOWING HIM, compared to what the world means by knowing a person. VASTLY different meanings. So this Post is meant for EVERYONE TO READ. So this is not directed at you personally, but for EVERYONE; you however gave me the perfect opportunity to respect what the Lord has been putting on HEART to Share.


KNEW or KNOW, is a reference to the inner, personal relationship of having HIM inside of us, 1 Cor. 2:16, AND WE ARE INSIDE OF HIS SPIRITUAL BODY, LITERALLY, 1 Cor. 12:13.

That is the HOLY SPIRIT's first job after HE brings us to SAVING FAITH, where HE IMMERSES US INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF JESUS CHRIST.

THAT IS KNOWN AS BEING BORN AGAIN, LITERALLY, as HE BIRTHS OUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, while Pouring GOD's LOVE into our Human Spirit, Rom 5:5; after He genuinely convicts us our sinful lifestyle. For me, HE convicted me with wave, after wave of DEEP REMORSE, while I cried like a baby, begging HIM to FORGIVE ME.

That is the Born Again experience, and you will absolutely know if you have been Born Again!

John 3:3-7 (NASB)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Don't you think that IF YOU HAD ETERNALLY SECURE LIFE, in your HUMAN SPIRIT; you would KNOW IT, and KNOW HIM, much more personally. I certainly DO!

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body{. That Certainly includes the thief on the cross.}
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

That is the BAPTISM that SAVES. The Holy Spirit immerses us into the spiritual body of Christ, while HE births our human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, and POURS GOD's LOVE directly into our Human Spirit. That AGAPE LOVE is the seed of faith in our Hearts, which will produce the same kind of LOVE for GOD and the Brethren, AS HE PUT INTO OUR HEARTS (Human Spirit). IT WILL NEVER END. AND it says the HOLY SPIRIT SEALS US PERMANENTLY. Those who have Never been Born Again, and still call themselves disciples (means only followers) NEVER HAD THAT KIND OF LOVE AND FAITH in the first Place, therefore they will fall away.

Ephesians 4:30 (HCSB)
30 And don’t grieve God’s Holy Spirit. You were sealed by Him for the day of redemption. {.There is a major OSAS VERSE!}

1 John 2:19 (NIV)
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Here is a verse that contains I never knew you as a reference to knowing HIM through the inner, personal relationship of being Born Again. That is HEART KNOWLEDGE OF HIM, not intellectual knowledge which is only in your head.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit. {. That is life style Characteristics listed in Gal. 5:22-26.}
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many {.The Same Many that HE mentions in Mat. 7:13.} will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! {referencing Born Again} Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Why do you suppose HE called them Lawbreakers ? ? ? I am absolutely positive, that it is by NOT being Born Again, they had no Forgiveness, and therefore they will be Judged by their Deeds.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


Romans 3:20 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.

Matthew 25:11-12 (HCSB)
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!

The reason they qualified as virgins, is it is synonymous with Church-goers. BUT REMEMBER sitting on a PEW, does not make you a
REAL Born Again Christian.

Knowing HIM is referencing the Born Again experience, of Lovingly surrendering to HIM as LORD (Master) of your life. That is not a suggestion, but rather a MUST, to enter the Enter the Kingdom of GOD, John 3:5.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
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HBG. Pa. USA
I am sorry this got to be a long post, but I felt the LORD calling me, for some time now, that HE wanted me to explain what HE meant by KNOWING HIM, compared to what the world means by knowing a person. VASTLY different meanings. So this Post is meant for EVERYONE TO READ. So this is not directed at you personally, but for EVERYONE; you however gave me the perfect opportunity to respect what the Lord has been putting on HEART to Share.


KNEW or KNOW, is a reference to the inner, personal relationship of having HIM inside of us, 1 Cor. 2:16, AND WE ARE INSIDE OF HIS SPIRITUAL BODY, LITERALLY, 1 Cor. 12:13.

That is the HOLY SPIRIT's first job after HE brings us to SAVING FAITH, where HE IMMERSES US INTO THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF JESUS CHRIST.

THAT IS KNOWN AS BEING BORN AGAIN, LITERALLY, as HE BIRTHS OUR HUMAN SPIRIT INTO ETERNAL LIFE, while Pouring GOD's LOVE into our Human Spirit, Rom 5:5; after He genuinely convicts us our sinful lifestyle. For me, HE convicted me with wave, after wave of DEEP REMORSE, while I cried like a baby, begging HIM to FORGIVE ME.

That is the Born Again experience, and you will absolutely know if you have been Born Again!

John 3:3-7 (NASB)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
4 Nicodemus *said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

Don't you think that IF YOU HAD ETERNALLY SECURE LIFE, in your HUMAN SPIRIT; you would KNOW IT, and KNOW HIM, much more personally. I certainly DO!

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body{. That Certainly includes the thief on the cross.}
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

That is the BAPTISM that SAVES. The Holy Spirit immerses us into the spiritual body of Christ, while HE births our human spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, and POURS GOD's LOVE directly into our Human Spirit. That AGAPE LOVE is the seed of faith in our Hearts, which will produce the same kind of LOVE for GOD and the Brethren, AS HE PUT INTO OUR HEARTS (Human Spirit). IT WILL NEVER END. AND it says the HOLY SPIRIT SEALS US PERMANENTLY. Those who have Never been Born Again, and still call themselves disciples (means only followers) NEVER HAD THAT KIND OF LOVE AND FAITH in the first Place, therefore they will fall away.

Ephesians 4:30 (HCSB)
30 And don’t grieve God’s Holy Spirit. You were sealed by Him for the day of redemption. {.There is a major OSAS VERSE!}

1 John 2:19 (NIV)
19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Here is a verse that contains I never knew you as a reference to knowing HIM through the inner, personal relationship of being Born Again. That is HEART KNOWLEDGE OF HIM, not intellectual knowledge which is only in your head.

Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit. {. That is life style Characteristics listed in Gal. 5:22-26.}
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many {.The Same Many that HE mentions in Mat. 7:13.} will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! {referencing Born Again} Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

Why do you suppose HE called them Lawbreakers ? ? ? I am absolutely positive, that it is by NOT being Born Again, they had no Forgiveness, and therefore they will be Judged by their Deeds.

Titus 3:5-7 (HCSB)
5 He saved usnot by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.


Romans 3:20 (NKJV)
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.


1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers.
The one who does not love remains in death.

Matthew 25:11-12 (HCSB)
11 “Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, ‘Master, master, open up for us!’
12 “But he replied, ‘I assure you: I do not know you!

The reason they qualified as virgins, is it is synonymous with Church-goers. BUT REMEMBER sitting on a PEW, does not make you a
REAL Born Again Christian.

Knowing HIM is referencing the Born Again experience, of Lovingly surrendering to HIM as LORD (Master) of your life. That is not a suggestion, but rather a MUST, to enter the Enter the Kingdom of GOD, John 3:5.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


(Joh 17:3,23; Eph 5:30-32 KJV)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Did you even check before you said that?

ISV, DRB, DBT, WNT, YLT

https://biblehub.com/john/3-16.htm
It's painfully obvious to me that you and I are NOT going to come to an agreement and I'm really getting tired of wasting my time arguing with you. I'm also convinced that you are throughly indoctrinated and unteachable, but I will respond to this post before shaking the dust off my shoes and moving on.

Yes I did check and neither the ISV, DRB, DBT, WNT, or YLT have 2 mights, but the NAB (Catholic Bible) does.

ISV - For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.

DRB - For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

DBT - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

WNT - For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

YLT - for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

So one translation with 1 might and three translations with 2 mays, but still no other translation with 2 mights.

NAB - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. Like I said before. ONLY The NAB (Catholic Bible) translates John 3:16 with 2 mights.

I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic about the NAB translation and when I pointed out to him that those who truly believe in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life (NASB) he basically told me that believing "is not enough," then went on to say that believing does not diminish the role of obedience to Christ in the process of getting to heaven. In other words, salvation is by believing + obedience/works according to him. He said that "justification" (instead of ongoing sanctification) is a process, which is a common error taught by works-salvationists. He also accused me of ignoring the rest of the chapter in connection with what being born of water means in John 3:5, then he said it refers to baptism, so now it's believing + water baptism.

This Roman Catholic was also quick to point out that in John 3:36, we read - "..but whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him" and really stressed "disobeys the Son" to imply that we are saved by believing + obedience/works, which should come as no surprise. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a14.htm :cautious: It should also come as no surprise that Roman Catholicism strongly opposes osas, as do all false religions and cults that teach salvation by works.

In regards to John 3:36, "disobeys the Son or does not obey the Son" does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

John 3:36 (HCSB) - The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him. (y)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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My uncle died from it....he fought cancer 7 years and had it whipped with a bone marrow transplant but died due to his heart and lungs failing from all the meds and chemo to kill the cancer........
I had a transplant myself 8 months ago. It seems to be working. My 24 year old daughter was my donor. Sweet, sweet young lady. Praise the Lord!
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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My uncle died from it....he fought cancer 7 years and had it whipped with a bone marrow transplant but died due to his heart and lungs failing from all the meds and chemo to kill the cancer........
Yes, they put you through the ringer. I’ve had so much chemo and radiation leading up to the transplant, it almost did me in, and I’m fairly young. Maybe that’s why I have some strange beliefs? Chemo brain...😳
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
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Apparently you know, if they obviously were never saved to begin with, since it is written in John 6:64
For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said,
Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
So when they come to him and say Lord, Lord and say we did what we thought you asked of us he responds, he will profess (speak) unto them, I never knew you.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23
By seeing they see not, and by hearing they hear not lest they be converted and their sins forgiven.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46
And what do you think Jesus was lying about if he is omniscient? Or do you think he doesnt' have the power to save?
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25
So they obviously weren't saved. Phuuuh

You can beat around the bush but no.


These men who look to their works to justify themselves, CLAIM to have done many wonderful works in Jesus name. They CLAIM to have casted out demons.



These works salvationists have no Holy spirit or ability to cast out demons.🤦‍♂️



Chris Lasala is a prime example of one of these works salvationist false teacher who actually pretends to cast out demons from people.

People also pretend to be delivered in their man made religious nonsense.




Disclaimer: I don't know the views of the person posting this video but it is an example of a what is being addressed in matthew.



Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.




 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:22-23

Humm, they obviously believed in God and yet they get cast out.
The demons believe in God, but they are not saved either. (James 2:19)
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
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Wow what an epic long thread.. Just goes to show how many people are devout members of the largest cult in world religion .. The Works salvation cult.. So sad but it seems that most of mankind thinks works should be the way that people should be justified.. Work for reward mindset has them deceived.. But that's the way men think it should be, it's their idea of justice.. But Gods thoughts and his Ways are not the thoughts and ways of men.. What seems good and just to a man will not see Him justified before a PERFECT God...

The Only Way to be justified before a perfect God is to have ALL ones transgressions against His PERFECT standards Justly forgiven...... But many people cannot accept this simple Way of salvation.. Such is life..
 
Nov 16, 2019
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So one translation with 1 might and three translations with 2 mays, but still no other translation with 2 mights.

NAB - For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life. Like I said before. ONLY The NAB (Catholic Bible) translates John 3:16 with 2 mights.
'May' means 'might'.
Really.
Check it out for yourself:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/may

So the Catholics are not the only ones who acknowledge the actual Greek grammar in John 3:16.
Any honest person can see for themselves what the actual Greek is in that verse.
 

OneOfHis

Well-known member
Mar 24, 2019
1,431
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'May' means 'might'.
Really.
Check it out for yourself:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/may

So the Catholics are not the only ones who acknowledge the actual Greek grammar in John 3:16.
Any honest person can see for themselves what the actual Greek is in that verse.
If you could pick a number between 2 and 100 to represent the number of accounts you have had on christanchat, which could you say is honestly the most accurate?

🧐
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Ralph's Avatar states Guest... not banned.

Okay really, think for a minute, would you want to own up to being "Ralph"

The main take away from his time here as Ralph was that I always had Journey's "Don't Stop Believing" stuck in my head.

He obviously wants a fresh start, no ties to the past persona... fine... but his dogma is still wrong.
Speaking of Ralph, I ran into some of his old posts and sure enough, "don't stop believing" is his theme song. Ralph is a one string banjo.

You lose the sanctification of Christ's sacrifice (which only has to be applied once) if you stop believing in that sacrifice. You are no longer set apart as holy (sanctified in salvation) if you go back to the world in unbelief. And the author made it clear in chapter 6 that you can't get it back once you lose it................
The argument of 'once saved always saved' boils down to whether or not a person can, or is allowed to stop believing............And you must continue in that believing you started on the day you got saved to be saved when he returns. Our continued believing keeps us in the security of Christ's salvation....................
Of course believers are secure in his/her salvation. That's why you should keep believing. It's when you stop believing that you lose the security of God's salvation..................