Christ is God

[Alertandawake]

Heb 2:16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham. 17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonementg for the sins of the people.

Q. What does it mean " He was made" and who made Him?

Also another question to the people, who believe Christ is God, in that same verse, Hebrews 2.17, who is the "He" that is in service to God?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now see here in Hebrews 2.9, "made" is a key word here. It is based on the greek word G1642 elattoo. This word can mean make less or make inferior. Check it out on studybible info.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Also another question to the people, who believe Christ is God, in that same verse, Hebrews 2.17, who is the "He" that is in service to God?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now see here in Hebrews 2.9, "made" is a key word here. It is based on the greek word G1642 elattoo. This word can mean make less or make inferior. Check it out on studybible info.

It means at one time he was superior.

all men are inferior, there is not need to make this claim unless at one time he was superior.

Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

this is the Lord God of Israel speaking, he was sent by the father and the spirit. and this is in the OT

before abraham was, I am

 

[Alertandawake]

Yet you ignore the many other passages that declair he is God

either Jesus is confused. Or something in your thinking is wrong

Where is the verse that Jesus explicitly bluntly states He Himself is God Almighty? I want a specific exact verse, verse number chapter specific, I not interest in word games. I want a specific reference that exactly states that from Jesus's own mouth, that he himself said that he alone is God Almighty? Tell me the verse and the chapter. I make it simple, where is the verse that Jesus himself says something like this "I Jesus Christ am God Almighty".

WHen I say explicit, I mean direct, clear. Don't bother quoting me "before Abraham was I am" because Adam was before Abraham, does that make Adam God, no it does not. I want a clear and direct statement. And don't bother quoting me John 10.30 "I and my father are one" because in the verse before that it states in John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Notice that it says "greater than all" it does not say "greater than all except the son"

I gave provided explicit references Jesus admitted he has a God, and admitted The Father is the only true God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where is the verse that Jesus explicitly bluntly states He Himself is God Almighty? I want a specific exact verse, verse number chapter specific, I not interest in word games. I want a specific reference that exactly states that from Jesus's own mouth, that he himself said that he alone is God Almighty? Tell me the verse and the chapter. I make it simple, where is the verse that Jesus himself says something like this "I Jesus Christ am God Almighty".

WHen I say explicit, I mean direct, clear. Don't bother quoting me "before Abraham was I am" because Adam was before Abraham, does that make Adam God, no it does not. I want a clear and direct statement. And don't bother quoting me John 10.30 "I and my father are one" because in the verse before that it states in John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Notice that it says "greater than all" it does not say "greater than all except the son"

I gave provided explicit references Jesus admitted he has a God, and admitted The Father is the only true God.

So Jesus is a God?


i just have you A passage where the God of Israel proclaimed he was sent by the father, did you go read it?

probably not, here let me put it into perspective for you

isaiah 48
Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last.
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!

 

[Alertandawake]

So Jesus is a God?

I never said that, I said Jesus admitted he has a God. As referenced in John 20.17 - I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God

i just have you A passage where the God of Israel proclaimed he was sent by the father, did you go read it?

probably not, here let me put it into perspective for you

You said above "the God of Israel proclaimed he was sent by the father". Who are you referring to as the God of Israel? Who sent who?

16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”

Where it says "Have sent Me" who is the "Me"

Now keep this in mind, as clearly reference in John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Who sent who?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You said above "the God of Israel proclaimed he was sent by the father". Who are you referring to as the God of Israel? Who sent who?



Where it says "Have sent Me" who is the "Me"

Now keep this in mind, as clearly reference in John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Who sent who?

for the second time

isaiah 48
Listen to Me, O Jacob,
And Israel, My called:
I am He, I am the First,
I am also the Last. (alpha and Omega)
13 Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth,
And My right hand has stretched out the heavens;
When I call to them,
They stand up together.
14 “All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear!
Who among them has declared these things?
The Lord loves him;
He shall do His pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15 I, even I, have spoken;
Yes, I have called him,
I have brought him, and his way will prosper.
16 “Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
[c]Have sent Me.”
17 Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
“I am the Lord your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!


The bolded parts are who "me" Is

he was sent by the father and the spirit?

Who is He?

He is the LORD YOUR GOD.

 

[posthuman]

God can also have a chain of command,

In that 'there is no longer male or female in Christ' while 'the man is the head of the woman' as well as in the relationship between the Father and Son we see how there is still hierarchy in perfect equality

 

[Alertandawake]

The bolded parts are who "me" Is

he was sent by the father and the spirit?

Who is He?

He is the LORD YOUR GOD.

I have read the verse concerned, the reason why I asked the questions is because in my opinion trinitarians are not capable of giving a clear direct answer.

SO when you say "He is the LORD YOUR GOD", to reference the terminology used in the New Testament, is "He" The Father? The Son ? or The Holy Spirit?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have read the verse concerned, the reason why I asked the questions is because in my opinion trinitarians are not capable of giving a clear direct answer.

SO when you say "He is the LORD YOUR GOD", to reference the terminology used in the New Testament, is "He" The Father? The Son ? or The Holy Spirit?

I quoted an OT passage where he states he is the lord your God
and your asking me about the NT

something is seriously wrong here

again. Read what I posted

 

[posthuman]

SO when you say "He is the LORD YOUR GOD", to reference the terminology used in the New Testament, is "He" The Father? The Son ? or The Holy Spirit?

Yes.

 

[Noose]

​

Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.​

(Philippians 2:5-7) ​

​

He is God; His substance is divine and He was in the form of God - equal with God without any injustice for Him to be so.

He made Himself of no reputation, taking on humanity; the form and likeness of a man.

it does not mean He was 'created' -- He is eternal, uncreated. all that was created was created through Him.
only one being fits that description

Yes it means He was created. Creation does not mean something out of nothing but a transformation.

If He pre-existed in the form of God and was transformed to the form of a bond-servant then He was definitely created. This is exactly what it means to be created and all men undergo this kind of creation.

Job 27:3as long as my breath is still within me and the breath of God remains in my nostrils, 4my lips will not speak wickedness, and my tongue will not utter deceit.

Job 33:4The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Job 32:7I thought that age should speak,and many years should teach wisdom.
8But there is a spirita in a man,the breath of the Almighty,that gives him understanding.

If God's spirit is what makes our being, then we existed with God before the foundations of the world and creation doesn't mean that God is seated there and His creation on the other side but God creates by becoming the created. Jesus is different because He is not part of the fallen world but He was created and that's why He is the second Adam.

Q. When were you created @posthuman? Were you created when your parents conceived you or in the beginning when Adam was created?

 

[Noose]

He was God who became man, seeing God could not die. This is speaking about Him being a man. It took a perfect sacrifice to appease God's wrath, but God the Son had to become a man to die.

God became everything. Creation is not God seated on one end while His creation appearing on the other end, it is God becoming that created thing.

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

God became everything. Creation is not God seated on one end while His creation appearing on the other end, it is God becoming that created thing.

The Christ was NOT created. Quit being so foolish. <——Psalm 14:1

You‘re saying the Christ is not God, and to me, that’s really close to you being Psalm 14:1.

 

[Noose]

The Christ was NOT created. Quit being so foolish. <——Psalm 14:1

You‘re saying the Christ is not God, and to me, that’s really close to you being Psalm 14:1.

You are very far from getting my argument. Jesus was a man, a man is God's creation, God's image - doesn't matter whether He was God/spirit before He became a man but at the point where He was a man, He must have been created. We can not call it any other name.

 

[posthuman]

Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit Have sent Me.”

this is the Lord God of Israel speaking, he was sent by the father and the spirit. and this is in the OT

I was looking for that verse a couple weeks ago, thanks!


The Bible here on my phone has a footnote saying the verb 'have sent' is singular.

So God says the LORD God and His Spirit have sent Him - and says it as though the LORD and the Spirit are one and the same, not multiple beings.

Here is the trinity in one verse in the OT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was looking for that verse a couple weeks ago, thanks!


The Bible here on my phone has a footnote saying the verb 'have sent' is singular.

So God says the LORD God and His Spirit have sent Him - and says it as though the LORD and the Spirit are one and the same, not multiple beings.

Here is the trinity in one verse in the OT

It’s my go to passage proves trinity is not a NT idea

 

[Alertandawake]

I quoted an OT passage where he states he is the lord your God
and your asking me about the NT

something is seriously wrong here

again. Read what I posted

When you posted Isaiah 48 earlier, what are you trying to prove? Are you trying to use that verse to show Jesus is God? Sorry, but when it comes to dealing with trinitarians I have to dissect and put under a microscope everything they say.

With me, you are not dealing with someone who believes blindly. I check and recheck. I verify to the best of my ability.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When you posted Isaiah 48 earlier, what are you trying to prove? Are you trying to use that verse to show Jesus is God? Sorry, but when it comes to dealing with trinitarians I have to dissect and put under a microscope everything they say.

With me, you are not dealing with someone who believes blindly. I check and recheck. I verify to the best of my ability.

If you checked and rechecked you would see what that passage says

You would see who wrote it
You would see he was sent by the father
You would see he was sent by the spirit

That fact you do not even seem willing to discuss it puts up red flags

I do not Just put things up to put up. I’f it is easily refuted it is uselessTo me

 

[OneOfHis]

When you posted Isaiah 48 earlier, what are you trying to prove? Are you trying to use that verse to show Jesus is God? Sorry, but when it comes to dealing with trinitarians I have to dissect and put under a microscope everything they say.

With me, you are not dealing with someone who believes blindly. I check and recheck. I verify to the best of my ability.

If you don't believe Jesus is God, you are missing a very important truth.

It is very clear in scripture and proven with out a doubt using proper context in this thread alone.


There is no argument using proper context, ever, to suggest Jesus is not the Word or God.


Jesus has always been.

 

[OneOfHis]

yes! amen

can't post this verse enough:

without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh ​

(1 Timothy 3:16) ​

​

a great mystery!
God manifest in the flesh!

this is not something simple, not something easy to comprehend, not something clearly understood by humankind.
it is a mystery -- a great one!
flesh and blood doesn't reveal it, but God Himself reveals it -- God reveals Himself

It is clear as day....