Who is the ones that is taken ? And who is the ones that are left ?

[Absolutely]

AMEN......no scriptures in context support some imaginary return before the Great Tribulation.......even the words IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of those days are skewed by the imminent returners.....below are scriptural truths skewed by imminent returners...

a. The Grandsville Sharp in 2nd Thessalonians 2 and the described GATHERING TOGETHER unto HIM AFTER the man of sin is revealed
b. The total rejection of Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 <--AFTER the TRIBULATION of those days and the GATHERING by the ANGELS
c. The parable of the wheat and tares and how GOD begins to deal with the TARES first before the ANGELS gather the wheat
d. The absolute ignorant argument that the church is not mentioned after Rev 4. when the WHOLE book is written to the church
e. The absolute rejection of who the saints/elect are and their mention and twist in Revelation
f. The denial of the word KEEP written unto the FAITHFUL in the LORD'S churches and twist to make it imply REMOVE
g. THE absolute IDIOCY of saying or believing the modern CHURCH will not face the persecution of the GT in light of the last 2000 years of history
h. The denial of the LAST day statement applied unto the resurrection/change and even mentioned BY JOB and when this day takes place
i. The denial of the 7th and FINAL trump and how the LAST trump does not mean the LAST trump
j. THE denied and swept under the table the sign of the SIEGE and FALL of JERICHO and how that ORDER follows PRECISELY the 7 seals, 7 trumps, does not mention the 7 thunders and even uses the same verbiage of 1st Thessalonians 4 and 1st Corinthians 15 (GREAT TRUMP, ASCENSION, VICTORY)
k. The denial of the fact that we thru MUCH tribulation must enter the kingdom
l. THE absolute ignorance of making WRATH and TRIBULATION the same thing
m. The ignorance of believing the wrath of GOD has arrived at the 6th seal because LOST MEN HIDING say it has arrived
n. WHILE ignoring that the WRATH IS ANNOUNCED IN HEAVEN as having arrived at the 7th TRUMP
o. The fact most rely on two scriptures out of context to lay the foundation for the imminent return and then build the above quagmire on said scriptures
p. The fact they try to make the Day of the Lord and Day of Christ two different days and 2 different comings by Christ
q. ETC.

I can GO ALL day long with inconsistencies, skewed scriptures, denied contexts and words by the imminent returners.......and I dogmatically believed it and defended it UNTIL I actually had to study the bible through twice a year in Seminary and seen so many things that did not jive.......

It is hard to tell what position you are defending.

Only that you recklessly reframe pretrib rapture doctrine,while omitting our verses.

If I had a dollar for every non applicable cliche invoked by rapture police I would be rich.

 

[Absolutely]

AMEN and I even missed a word in one of my points above....corrected below (bolded)....study the siege and fall of JERICHO the order is precise and so is the verbiage....an excellent OT picture of the order of the end of the age

j. THE denied and swept under the table the sign of the SIEGE and FALL of JERICHO and how that ORDER follows PRECISELY the 7 seals, 7 trumps, does not mention the 7 thunders and even uses the same verbiage of 1st Thessalonians 4 and 1st Corinthians 15 (GREAT TRUMP, SHOUT, ASCENSION, VICTORY)

great pretrib rapture depiction.
Thanks

 

[Absolutely]

To THOSE that HAVE seen some of the TRUTH, A WARNING, Satan will DO every thing POSABLE TO take that TRUTH FROM your HEARTS AND MINDS , SO YOU need TO keep studying AND ask GOD TO HELP you see HIS truths IN the BIBLE AND STAND ON THEM . The truth is what HE sanctifies US BY, JESUS says that will come Immediately , TO try to take it out of our HEARTS, GOD bless as HE sees fit'

Amen
The pretrib rapture verses are a positive force in standing on the truth of the bible

 

[Absolutely]

I don't think that "last trump" = "7th Trump".

1 Corinthians 15
15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

This is the only place in NT where the term "last trump" is mentioned. I believe that it signifies the end of the Church Age, ie. the Pre-Trib Rapture. We are then glorified, are married to the Groom (Jesus), and then return to Earth with Him to rule and reign with at the end of the 7 year Trib. I believe that we are taught to have our lamps full, trimmed, and burning so that we won't miss the Rapture.

I see that there are very few things that we agree on 100%, but the Blood of Jesus (Atonement) is what really matters most.

We agree
The last trump is pretrib.
It is blown every year at the feast of trumpets.

The rapture Could be at that time.

Could be

 

[Kolistus]

I can see it either way. Works for either camp.

In the tsunami in Japan, the boats were taken away first.

Nobody would rationally think people are taken away before a boat.
Makes no sense

You could say Noah was taken away on a boat, and the wicked remained.

I get you brother.

 

[Absolutely]

You could say Noah was taken away on a boat, and the wicked remained.

I get you brother.

Yep

I put on one hat and it appears the wicked are taken away.

Put on another hat and it is Noah and family taken away.

But the context is Preflood. So any taking away is Preflood.

We can see it also in testing it post flood. (Post trib)

"Then,AFTER THE FLOOD receded, (postrib) the flood came and took them all away.

Huh????

Truly it is a pretrib rapture

 

[JohnR7]

But I don't think Bible college is the only way one can devote a lifetime to biblical studies.

The Holy Spirit of God is our Teacher and our Guide. We do not need man to teach us. ONLY I went to the Bible college to develop communication skills so I could share with others what God is teaching me. This is an issue with my son. He takes all of these advanced math classes and that is fine. But I want him to develop his communication skills just as much because it is very important in life to be able to communicate with all people.

 

[JohnR7]

Paul was.

Makes me laugh to think that Festus was not impressed: "At this point Festus interrupted Paul's defense. "You are out of your mind, Paul!" he shouted. "Your great learning is driving you insane." (acts 26:24)

 

[Dave-L]

This seems pretty selective to me. What parts of the Bible can we then leave out? Who determined it?

Doesn’t make sense. We need to read the whole Bible and apply it to our lives.

You are right that Paul taught Yeshua from the OT and all he left behind was the manmade doctrine in the Talmud.

We cannot leave any out. But two different religions, one true the other false come from the same scriptures. So Paul no doubt gave the Christian view instead of Judaism.

 

[Dave-L]

No

I never said that.

You think his antichrist rampage was due to his understanding of the scripture?

You don't think there is an Antichrist?

 

[Kolistus]

Yep

I put on one hat and it appears the wicked are taken away.

Put on another hat and it is Noah and family taken away.

But the context is Preflood. So any taking away is Preflood.

We can see it also in testing it post flood. (Post trib)

"Then,AFTER THE FLOOD receded, (postrib) the flood came and took them all away.

Huh????

Truly it is a pretrib rapture

I agree with you now that I think of the second example, LOT. Lot was TAKEN out of Sodom and Gomorrah before God sent judgment.

Thank you brother for correcting my understanding on these verses. I appreciate it

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes even the often quoted scripture they use to point to the rapture includes the timing of the last trumpet sounding..

1 Corinthians 15: KJV
50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. {51} Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, {52} In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The last trumpet sounding is revealed once again in the Book of Revelation ( very important that book )

Revelation 10: KJV
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

Interesting how both Paul a prophet of God reveals a Mystery about what will happen at the last trumpet and we then read about the 7th and last trumpet blast in the book of Revelation talking about a mystery being revealed..

And then we go to the account from Jesus of the day of His return::

Matthew 24: KJV
29 "¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

But they claim we have no scriptures supporting a post tribulation rapture.

Oh I know.....exactly why I wrote the book on the second coming of Christ....in the blog section.....they will say that is not really the last trump (7th)

 

[Absolutely]

You could say Noah was taken away on a boat, and the wicked remained.

I get you brother.

Exactly... before the flood... then came the flood ....they....were taken away.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

So we see the Son of man comes at the onset of the flood and takes "them" away.
So any inference to some wicked group raptured is poorly thought out.
But wait,Jesus clarifies this preflood dynamic in the very next verses;

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Just test fit "post flood"

But AFTER THE FLOOD get ready because just as "they" were taken away AFTER THE FLOOD so shall it be when I come.

Rediculous.

 

[Absolutely]

Exactly... before the flood... then came the flood ....they....were taken away.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

So we see the Son of man comes at the onset of the flood and takes "them" away.
So any inference to some wicked group raptured is poorly thought out.
But wait,Jesus clarifies this preflood dynamic in the very next verses;

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Just test fit "post flood"

But AFTER THE FLOOD get ready because just as "they" were taken away AFTER THE FLOOD so shall it be when I come.

Rediculous.

Oh but wait,right in the middle of the clear,crystal clear preflood dynamic Jesus says this,just to let us know the rapture is indeed preflood/pretrib;
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


Beyond any doubt it is the rapture.
the good ole pretrib rock solid Jesus declarin rapture

THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!

 

[Absolutely]

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field: the one taken and the other one left; Two grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left.........Who is the ones that is taken ? And who is the ones that are left ? ..

The very next chapter tells us.

The wise are taken (worthy)
The foolish are disqualified....they stay

 

[Absolutely]

another verse says "2 in a bed,one taken,one left."

So it is worldwide.
Some are sleeping while others are working.

They are taken worldwide

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I agree with you now that I think of the second example, LOT. Lot was TAKEN out of Sodom and Gomorrah before God sent judgment.

Thank you brother for correcting my understanding on these verses. I appreciate it

Here's how I see it:

Genesis 19:29 -

"29 And it cometh to pass, in God's destroying the cities of the circuit, that God remembereth Abraham, and sendeth Lot out of the midst of the overthrow [H2018] in the overthrowing [H2015] of the cities in which Lot dwelt."



[not seeing the idea of "take" but "send [out of]" ... and then perhaps the words "[the] overthrow [H2018]" and "[the] overthrowing [H2015]" would be more akin to the "taking down of" (or, as I had phrased it earlier, "taken away in judgment")]

See what I mean?

There is a different word elsewhere used for "overthrow [H2040]" used in both Proverbs 29:4 [as "overthrow"] and Proverbs 14:1 [as "plucketh it down [with her hands]"]... I wonder if the same general "picture" (in a sense) goes for both the H2040 word here, and the H2018/H2015 word in Gen19:29 even though a different word (IOW, He "SENDETH" Lot out of the midst, but "OVERTHREW" the cities in which Lot had dwelt... kind of like "SENDING" is saying, "Hey, YOU GET OUT" [you'll stay alive that way!] and then the "overthrowing" is like "Hey, I'M takin' them DOWN!" [in judgment])

Just something to consider

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ EDIT: just a reminder to the readers, I am coming at the text (I mean, in my explanation of it) as a "pre-tribber" who sees the "taken and left" passages as referring to events surrounding His Second Coming to the earth (and not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]," per context/contexts)


P.S. [not enuf time] I see Luke 21:36 as a tribulation period passage, not a rapture passage (where they "[actively] FLEE OUT OF")

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

You could say Noah was taken away on a boat, and the wicked remained.

I get you brother.

The way I'm reading it, verse 38 speaks only of "Noah" (even though we know others were also on board), and I believe that is to emphasize the distinction of v.39's "[plural] THEY/THEM" (correlating with the "people [plural]" of v.38)

I think the bsb [version] kind of gives the correct sense:

"38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. 39 And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man." ['they' plural; Noah wasn't the one that "knew not UNTIL"... He believed God and prepared the ark and got on board before the judgment fell The "they" of this context, by contrast, disregarded God's word via Noah (it's not that they never heard/saw Noah doing all that prep, it's that they disregarded God's word via Noah... this is what I believe 1 Peter 3:19 is speaking about)]


[note: all "Son of man coming/cometh/shall come/etc" passages speak of His Second Coming to the earth, to judge to reign--and this is one such context]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

this is what I believe 1 Peter 3:19 is speaking about)]

...oops, I should have made more clear by referencing BOTH verses, in 1 Peter 3:19-20.