Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

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Are you a Trinitarian, and can you defend the doctrine?

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, and I can defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 37 63.8%

  • Yes, I am a Trinitarian, but I cannot defend the doctrine.

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • No, I deny the doctrine of the Trinity.

    Votes: 16 27.6%

  • I don't know if the Trinity is true or false.

    Votes: 3 5.2%
  • Total voters
    58
N

Noose

Senior Member
#401
Apr 18, 2016
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#401
bojack said:
It only means that Gods Word is from the everlasting to the everlasting , not us , we are subject to creation and a beginning of time .. Now, we, our spirit/soul are a part of eternity past the End time ..
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I don't understand you.

What does reconcile mean? Christ reconciles you back to God, doesn't it mean He restores you?
 
B

bojack

Well-known member
#402
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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#402
Noose said:
I don't understand you.

What does reconcile mean? Christ reconciles you back to God, doesn't it mean He restores you?
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Yes, He restores us who choose Him from the fall, a two edged sword .. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#403
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#403
bojack said:
Yes, He restores us who choose Him from the fall, a two edged sword .. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
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Doesn't that mean you were once part of the divine before separation? what exactly are you being restored to?
 
B

bojack

Well-known member
#404
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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#404
Noose said:
Doesn't that mean you were once part of the divine before separation? what exactly are you being restored to?
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Restored to what Adam was created for.. Adam was created that way until he sinned and become like a god to know good and evil .. He bent over and God kicked him and her out , the ball has been in his and in our court now and since ..
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#405
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#405
bojack said:
Restored to what Adam was created for.. Adam was created that way until he sinned and become like a god to know good and evil .. He bent over and God kicked him and her out , the ball has been in his and in our court now and since ..
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Why you and not Adam? Does Adam's fall mean you also fell?

My point is, we were all with God even before the creation of Adam, there's a spirit in us, the spirit of God from which we get our being. Same thing with Jesus.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#407
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
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#407
Noose said:
But we can measure Jesus in the same manner as you and me right?!, now, isn't He God according to you?
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how do we intend to measure a man?

All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes,​
but the Lord weighs the spirits.
(Proverbs 16:2)​
​
where do we get an alignment to do that? how do we do it without affecting it by observation? can we do it at all, legitimately?
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#408
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#408
posthuman said:
how do we intend to measure a man?

All the ways of a man are pure in his own eyes,​
but the Lord weighs the spirits. ​
(Proverbs 16:2)​
​
where do we get an alignment to do that? how do we do it without affecting it by observation? can we do it at all, legitimately?
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A man is just one person and one being- that's the measure

Trinity tries to say Jesus was not one person and one being and if He is, is He God? If He is God, then God is just one person and one being. You can not have it both ways.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#409
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
113
#409
Noose said:
A man is just one person and one being- that's the measure

Trinity tries to say Jesus was not one person and one being and if He is, is He God? If He is God, then God is just one person and one being. You can not have it both ways.
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God is one.

there are 12 tribes of Israel.

Joseph is a tribe ((Genesis 49:22))
Joseph's two sons are also tribes ((Joshua 14:4)):
Manasseh is a tribe ((Numbers 13:11))​
Ephraim is a tribe ((Psalm 78:67)) ​
three, which are one.
14 tribes named in the scripture - but there are only 12 tribes.

the LORD is God. the Father is God.
the Spirit of the LORD is God. the Holy Ghost is God.
The Angel of the LORD is God. Christ is God.
God is one God, and there is no other God but one, even He.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#410
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#410
posthuman said:
God is one.

there are 12 tribes of Israel.

Joseph is a tribe ((Genesis 49:22))
Joseph's two sons are also tribes ((Joshua 14:4)):
Manasseh is a tribe ((Numbers 13:11))​
Ephraim is a tribe ((Psalm 78:67)) ​
three, which are one.
14 tribes named in the scripture - but there are only 12 tribes.

the LORD is God. the Father is God.
the Spirit of the LORD is God. the Holy Ghost is God.
The Angel of the LORD is God. Christ is God.
God is one God, and there is no other God but one, even He.
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This does not prove Trinity in any way. Tribe here would mean 'son of', so the twelve tribes comes from the twelve sons of Israel(Jacob). If he had other sons apart from these then they are also tribes but these twelve are the ones Jacob blessed (Gen 49)
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#411
Jul 31, 2013
37,835
13,558
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#411
Noose said:
This does not prove Trinity in any way. Tribe here would mean 'son of', so the twelve tribes comes from the twelve sons of Israel(Jacob). If he had other sons apart from these then they are also tribes but these twelve are the ones Jacob blessed (Gen 49)
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there are 14 tribes listed in scripture.
there are always 12 tribes. never less, never more.

this is to teach you how to count.
this is why God did this.
three are one.

1 are 3 -- think you are able to measure? write me the metric?
 
B

bojack

Well-known member
#412
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
#412
Noose said:
This does not prove Trinity in any way. Tribe here would mean 'son of', so the twelve tribes comes from the twelve sons of Israel(Jacob). If he had other sons apart from these then they are also tribes but these twelve are the ones Jacob blessed (Gen 49)
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Just curious, do you believe there is an eternal conscious torment in hell ?
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#414
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#414
posthuman said:
there are 14 tribes listed in scripture.
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No, there are 100s of tribes, means nothing.

there are always 12 tribes. never less, never more.
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Contradicting your earlier statement- do we have 14 or 12?

this is to teach you how to count.
this is why God did this.
three are one.
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1 are 3 -- think you are able to measure? write me the metric?
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There are no 14 tribes in 12 and God is not 3 in 1.

The measurement is simple:

Jesus = 1 person/ 1 being

If Jesus = God

Then

God = 1 person/1 being

If
God = 3 persons/1 being

And
Jesus is not 3 Persons/1 being

Then

Jesus is not God

Choose one, you can't have it both ways, it is an impossibility.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#415
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
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#415
Why do you give a description if you don't mean it?

If God is 3 persons in 1 being, then only those who meet this description can be referred to as God and Jesus surely doesn't meet this description. So something is definitely wrong with your description of God or your measure of Jesus or both.
 
B

bojack

Well-known member
#417
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
1,006
113
#417
Noose said:
Why do you give a description if you don't mean it?

If God is 3 persons in 1 being, then only those who meet this description can be referred to as God and Jesus surely doesn't meet this description. So something is definitely wrong with your description of God or your measure of Jesus or both.
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Do you think the Pharisees understood what Son of God meant to want to murder him ? All Jesus had to say was ''of course I'm not God'' .. Pilot was trying to let Jesus go, did Jesus ever deny who He is ?
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#418
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#418
bojack said:
Most folks that argues Jesus is not God also agues there is no hell ..
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Well, my ideas about hell might not be what many believe, i believe hell is shackles of darkness. and this is what is being described as eternal fire, torment e.t.c.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#419
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#419
bojack said:
Do you think the Pharisees understood what Son of God meant to want to murder him ? All Jesus had to say was ''of course I'm not God'' .. Pilot was trying to let Jesus go, did Jesus ever deny who He is ?
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
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Son of God is a title for those that belong to God including Adam at some point. Whether Pharisees understood this or not, is not the point.
My question is; How do you describe God as being 3 in 1 and then say Jesus is God, does Jesus meet this description?
 
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