1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-18, WHY do people say that JESUS IS going to bring the dead in CHRIST when HE comes back here, In 1 Thess 4:13-18

[Ahwatukee]

Ye do errow, THE dead DOSE NOT GO to HEAVEN, JOB 7:21 In why dost thou not pardon my transgression and take away mine iquity, For now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning but I will not be. When Paul says that we sleep, he means in the dust, NOT up in HEAVEN. AND JESUS DOSE NOT say that HE coming after a dead BODY. HE is coming after HIS SAINTS. THE breath GO's back to GOD who gave it, And that DON'T MEAN BACK TO HEAVEN. IT means THAT the breath is gone out of them, IT belongs to GOD,
GOD bless as HE sees fit

Your error is not recognizing that there is a difference between the body and the spirit. You lump them all together. Sleeping in the dust of the earth is referring to the body, not the soul/spirit.

As I have already told you, both the bodies of the rich man and Lazarus died, yet their spirits departed and were down in Sheol/Hades conscious and aware.

"But Jesus took her by the hand and called out, “Child, get up!” Her spirit returned, and at once she got up.

 

[bud62]

Your error is not recognizing that there is a difference between the body and the spirit. You lump them all together. Sleeping in the dust of the earth is referring to the body, not the soul/spirit.

As I have already told you, both the bodies of the rich man and Lazarus died, yet their spirits departed and were down in Sheol/Hades conscious and aware.

I believe Job over you, YOU mite be smart, BUT I believe that Job was A whole LOT SMARTER, than you, But I am not saying that you are not smart, JUST that he is smarter.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

Your error is not recognizing that there is a difference between the body and the spirit. You lump them all together. Sleeping in the dust of the earth is referring to the body, not the soul/spirit.

As I have already told you, both the bodies of the rich man and Lazarus died, yet their spirits departed and were down in Sheol/Hades conscious and aware.

"But Jesus took her by the hand and called out, “Child, get up!” Her spirit returned, and at once she got up.

HER breath return. Spirit = breath ,Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me and the spirit of God is in my nostrils

 

[presidente]

1 THESS 4:16 TELLS YOU THAT HE COMES DOWN BY HIMSELF.

No it does not. It says the Lord Himself not the Lord by Himself.

 

[bud62]

No it does not. It says the Lord Himself not the Lord by Himself.

YOU are wrong,
HIMSELF Means no one with him.
if my brother came and seen you by himself , it means that no one came with him,.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

No it does not. It says the Lord Himself not the Lord by Himself.

I can see What your saying thou.

 

[JohnR7]

It dose not say that HE is going to bring the dead in CHRIST back to earth when HE comes BACK.

Our physical body stays here on the earth until the resurrection. We have a Spiritual body that is much better looking then the physical body and that is what goes to Heaven.

 

[Jackson123]

YOU are wrong,
HIMSELF Means no one with him.
if my brother came and seen you by himself , it means that no one came with him,.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

He return by Himself but He reign for 1000 years with the martyr that come back to live

Rev20

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Nehemiah6]

There is not going to be no rapture

Now we get to the heart of the matter. Here is one person who on one hand quotes from 1 Thessalonians and on other other hand BLATANTLY DENIES the Resurrection/Rapture.

1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-18: THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE

1. THIS IS DOCTRINE IS FOR BELIEVERS WHO NEED SOLID HOPE
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [Note: "asleep" means those who died in Christ and will be raised again. They are not sleeping in the ground, but dead bodies give the appearance of sleep when they are buried], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

2. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WILL BRING WITH HIM FROM HEAVEN THE SOULS AND SPIRITS OF THOSE WHO DIED AND ARE NOW IN HEAVEN
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. [Note: God the Father is as much involved as God the Son. While the Holy Spirit is not mentioned, that is implied]

3. PAUL IS BRINGING THIS MESSAGE DIRECTLY FROM CHRIST, THEREFORE ALL CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE IT
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,...

4. THERE WILL ABSOLUTELY BE A RAPTURE OF THE LIVING SAINTS
...that we which are alive [Note: the living saints] and remain unto the coming of the Lord [Note: this is NOT the Second Coming of Christ, but His coming FOR His saints] shall not prevent them which are asleep. [Note: the Resurrection must precede the Rapture momentarily. "prevent" = precede]

5. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF WILL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven... [Note: Christ is presently seated in Heaven at the right hand of the Father]

6. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL WILL SHOUT OUT THE SUMMONS FOR THE SAINTS
...with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,... [Note: only Michael is called the archangel in the Bible]

7. THE TRUMP OF GOD IS ALSO CALLED "THE LAST TRUMP" BUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST TRUMPET JUDGMENT
...and with the trump of God:...

8. THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE FIRST, WITH IMMORTAL GLORIFIED *SPIRITUAL*BODIES (SEE 1 CORINTHIANS 15 FOR DETAILS)
..and the dead in Christ shall rise first:...[Note: this is the main *harvest* of the First Resurrection, the resurrection of the just]

9. HERE IS THE DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE INDISPUTABLY PRESENTED
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them... [Note: the Greek word here is harpagesometha, derived from harpazo, translated as "rapiemur" in Latin, hence "rapture" in English]

10. THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE IS A SUPERNATURAL EVENT WHICH TAKES ALL THE SAINTS TO HEAVEN BEFORE THE TRIBULATION
...in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord... [Note: the Lord remains "in the air" (the earth's atmosphere) and does not descend all the way to the earth as in the Second Coming]

11. THE DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE IS MEANT TO COMFORT THE SAINTS
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[presidente]

Our physical body stays here on the earth until the resurrection. We have a Spiritual body that is much better looking then the physical body and that is what goes to Heaven.

I Corinthians 15 talks about a spiritual body in the context of the resurrection not spiritual bodies going to heaven at death.

 

[bud62]

Now we get to the heart of the matter. Here is one person who on one hand quotes from 1 Thessalonians and on other other hand BLATANTLY DENIES the Resurrection/Rapture.

1 THESSALONIANS 4:13-18: THE BIBLICAL DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE

1. THIS IS DOCTRINE IS FOR BELIEVERS WHO NEED SOLID HOPE
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [Note: "asleep" means those who died in Christ and will be raised again. They are not sleeping in the ground, but dead bodies give the appearance of sleep when they are buried], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

2. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WILL BRING WITH HIM FROM HEAVEN THE SOULS AND SPIRITS OF THOSE WHO DIED AND ARE NOW IN HEAVEN
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him. [Note: God the Father is as much involved as God the Son. While the Holy Spirit is not mentioned, that is implied]

3. PAUL IS BRINGING THIS MESSAGE DIRECTLY FROM CHRIST, THEREFORE ALL CHRISTIANS MUST BELIEVE IT
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord,...

4. THERE WILL ABSOLUTELY BE A RAPTURE OF THE LIVING SAINTS
...that we which are alive [Note: the living saints] and remain unto the coming of the Lord [Note: this is NOT the Second Coming of Christ, but His coming FOR His saints] shall not prevent them which are asleep. [Note: the Resurrection must precede the Rapture momentarily. "prevent" = precede]

5. THE LORD JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF WILL DESCEND FROM HEAVEN
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven... [Note: Christ is presently seated in Heaven at the right hand of the Father]

6. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL WILL SHOUT OUT THE SUMMONS FOR THE SAINTS
...with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,... [Note: only Michael is called the archangel in the Bible]

7. THE TRUMP OF GOD IS ALSO CALLED "THE LAST TRUMP" BUT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE LAST TRUMPET JUDGMENT
...and with the trump of God:...

8. THE DEAD IN CHRIST RISE FIRST, WITH IMMORTAL GLORIFIED *SPIRITUAL*BODIES (SEE 1 CORINTHIANS 15 FOR DETAILS)
..and the dead in Christ shall rise first:...[Note: this is the main *harvest* of the First Resurrection, the resurrection of the just]

9. HERE IS THE DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE INDISPUTABLY PRESENTED
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them... [Note: the Greek word here is harpagesometha, derived from harpazo, translated as "rapiemur" in Latin, hence "rapture" in English]

10. THE RESURRECTION/RAPTURE IS A SUPERNATURAL EVENT WHICH TAKES ALL THE SAINTS TO HEAVEN BEFORE THE TRIBULATION
...in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord... [Note: the Lord remains "in the air" (the earth's atmosphere) and does not descend all the way to the earth as in the Second Coming]

11. THE DOCTRINE OF THE RAPTURE IS MEANT TO COMFORT THE SAINTS
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Verse 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together, this is saying that all that is alive is caught up.

 

[bud62]

There is no one left on earth alive according to this verse

 

[bud62]

Verse 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together, this is saying that all that is alive is caught up.

I believe that therte are going to be TWO resurrections yet, THE saved first, THE lost 1000 years later.

 

[Adstar]

It dose not say that HE is going to bring the dead in CHRIST back to earth when HE comes BACK.

I implore you to start readiing the entire Bible so you can get an overall view of the will of God...

Jude 1: KJV
14 "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, {15} To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

I don't know how you came to your conclusion that Jesus will not be returning with His Saints?? Have you be indoctrinated by some false preacher / denomination ??

(1 Thessalonians 3:13) "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints."

The Bible cannot be clearer that Jesus will return with His Saints..

The return of the LORD by the inspired prophecy of Zechariah::

Zechariah 14: KJV
4 "¶ And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. {5} And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee."

So there you have it 3 places in the Bible that clearly state that the LORD will return with His Saints..

 

[Jackson123]

There is no one left on earth alive according to this verse

What verse?

 

[presidente]

I can see What your saying thou.

I looked up the word translated 'He'. It may mean something like and indeed He the Lord shall descend.

 

[bud62]

No it does not. It says the Lord Himself not the Lord by Himself.

I believe It was wrong for me to say, that it was just going to be JESUS when HE COMES, THE angels will be with when HE COMES,

 

[jb]

There is not going to be no rapture

Terrible use of the English language!

And your conclusion is wrong...

 

[bud62]

Terrible use of the English language!

And your conclusion is wrong...

Not so ,There is not Going to be a rapture, THERE is a LOT OF BIBLE THAT GO's against IT, Even in the SAME VERSE. IT tells That all that remain GO's to HEAVEN, this means the lost have been slain by the brightness of his coming, Meaning the lost will not be here when the called up happens, Which means that it's HIS second coming not a rapture

 

[posthuman]

John Derby inverted the pre Tribulation rapture

eh, i don't think that's so. this man, whoever he is, didn't invent the scripture, but hear what is written:

Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial ​

which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. ​

(Revelation 3:10)​

​

He says to the church at Philadelphia He will save them from 'the hour of trial' -- Jacob's trouble.
so what is this speaking of? and why isn't the church mentioned in Revelation anywhere after chapter 3?
these ideas are not without basis. they aren't 'invented by a man' -- they're inferred from scripture. if you would argue them, you don't do well to brush it off by stating they're human invention. you need to find their basis in the Word, and find the interpretation.