Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?
- Thread starter UnitedWithChrist
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity?
(Proverbs 1:22)
Jesus Christ is the Son of Man is the Son of God is God manifest in the flesh. He is fully human and fully God.
no one has ever seen God; if you have seen Him, you have seen God.
blessed are those who have not seen, and believe
i don't measure persons. i don't have a basis.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/VectorBasis.html
-
2
- Show all
Yet Jesus was made to be like his brothers in every way - Heb 2:17
Does this mean you are also fully man and fully God? Now that you also share in the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4)
Seen God doesn't mean see as in watch but understand- but God has explained Himself from Genesis 1. Man is in the image of God, when it says man, that includes Jesus, you and myself too.
Does this mean you are also fully man and fully God? Now that you also share in the divine nature (2 Pet 1:4)
Seen God doesn't mean see as in watch but understand- but God has explained Himself from Genesis 1. Man is in the image of God, when it says man, that includes Jesus, you and myself too.
whenever the tribes are numbered, named or listed, it is 12.
but there are 14.
3 = 1
it teaches us that our 'norm' -- which is a fancy math word for a way to measure ((a ''measure" is an even fancier math word which is simultaneously a lot more simple and a lot more complex)) -- our 'norm' isn't God's norm.
you keep using what is called the L1 norm to count God, saying 1+1+1 = 3.
i showed you what's called the L∞ norm as an example that there are other ways to count. the right way to count depends on the space, or context, or setting, of the thing being counted. the 'setting' of God isn't a simple number line. the accusation that Christianity believes in 3 gods is based on bad math.
but there are 14.
3 = 1
it teaches us that our 'norm' -- which is a fancy math word for a way to measure ((a ''measure" is an even fancier math word which is simultaneously a lot more simple and a lot more complex)) -- our 'norm' isn't God's norm.
you keep using what is called the L1 norm to count God, saying 1+1+1 = 3.
i showed you what's called the L∞ norm as an example that there are other ways to count. the right way to count depends on the space, or context, or setting, of the thing being counted. the 'setting' of God isn't a simple number line. the accusation that Christianity believes in 3 gods is based on bad math.
When it says 12 tribes, you know why. Simple, 12 sons of Jacob.
There's no 3 in 1 tribes. Everything that happened with the tribes is just L1 norm, each time a tribe replacing another tribe when the 12 tribes are being counted. If there's a place 14 tribes are counted but mentioning only 12 then it would be L∞ norm, but each time it was 12 with 12 names, so no mystery.
But i still don't understand how this applies to God. 12 tribes = 12 tribes and 14 tribes = 14 tribes but 3 gods = 1 God as per trinity, not possible.
There's no 3 in 1 tribes. Everything that happened with the tribes is just L1 norm, each time a tribe replacing another tribe when the 12 tribes are being counted. If there's a place 14 tribes are counted but mentioning only 12 then it would be L∞ norm, but each time it was 12 with 12 names, so no mystery.
But i still don't understand how this applies to God. 12 tribes = 12 tribes and 14 tribes = 14 tribes but 3 gods = 1 God as per trinity, not possible.
Jesus is God, was that difficult ? Jesus is God's name and you don't have to understand it until you do .. Even Adam had to be saved by Jesus .. We are adopted-in sons of God .. Jesus is the only begotten Son ..
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
It is clear from the scriptures why the 12 tribes of Israel are 12 even though they could be counted to 14, but it is not clear from the scriptures why you describe God as 3 distinct persons.
The spirit of God manifesting Himself into creation is how God creates; it is how God created Adam and it is how Jesus was created and it is how the whole universe is created. There's no other way God creates other than He Himself becoming... but of course this happens in the heart of a man.
The spirit of God manifesting Himself into creation is how God creates; it is how God created Adam and it is how Jesus was created and it is how the whole universe is created. There's no other way God creates other than He Himself becoming... but of course this happens in the heart of a man.
Yes He can and was begotten to become flesh, the WORD become flesh and the Emmanuel, the Messiah, the Christ, the Savior, the Lamb of God, the I AM, the Son named with a pronounceable name ''Jesus'' .... Ha, not difficult at all .. Jesus said ''I and the Father are one'' and 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
That's two, the same one God .. God says He is the I AM .. Does that ring a bell for you Bro ?
That's two, the same one God .. God says He is the I AM .. Does that ring a bell for you Bro ?
Yes He can and was begotten to become flesh, the WORD become flesh and the Emmanuel, the Messiah, the Christ, the Savior, the Lamb of God, the I AM, the Son named with a pronounceable name ''Jesus'' .... Ha, not difficult at all .. Jesus said ''I and the Father are one'' and 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
That's two, the same one God .. God says He is the I AM .. Does that ring a bell for you Bro ?
That's two, the same one God .. God says He is the I AM .. Does that ring a bell for you Bro ?
Nope.
He made him out of dust, then breathed life into him. Dust isn't 'manifestation of God' and dust isn't 'in the heart of man'
With that pantheist/solipsist worldview it's no wonder you can't comprehend this.
He made him out of dust, then breathed life into him. Dust isn't 'manifestation of God' and dust isn't 'in the heart of man'
With that pantheist/solipsist worldview it's no wonder you can't comprehend this.
There are two dimensions here; God created in the spiritual dimension but we are living in the physical (fallen from the spiritual) dimension. And even in this physical dimension, nothing is really physical but your mind is the one that creates the physical. IOW, there's actually no dust but your mind (spirit) makes dust a reality just like it makes everything else including your flesh and bones a reality.
Biblically, we can see how Adam and Eve shifted from one dimension to the other:
Gen 3:
6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.
7And the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; so they sewed together fig leaves and made coverings for themselves.
They were not created blind so that after they ate of the forbidden fruit their eyes would be opened; it even says Eve saw it was good for food. What this means is that they fell from the spiritual dimension to the physical. Now in the physical, they were able to see as we see today and they saw they were naked, they saw the 'dust' from which they were created which you are now asking me but truth is, there isn't any dust, only our mind.
..... Cont'd
But how does God create?
Ecc 3:9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid on men to occupy them. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.
Psalm 24:
The earth is the LORD’s, and the fullness thereof,athe world and all who dwell therein.
2For He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters.
Prov 20:5The intentions of a man’s heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
Proverbs 18:4The words of a man's mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
Isa 51:
16I have put My words in your mouth, and covered you in the shadow of My hand,
to establishb the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”
Gen 1:
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Do not go by sight but by understanding. Your fallen understanding is the one that creates the physical world which passes away as it decays. Through Christ (second Adam), the spiritual is restored with the renewal of thy mind and so is the whole creation:
Rom 8:18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Ecc 3:9What does the worker gain from his toil? 10I have seen the burden that God has laid on men to occupy them. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.
Psalm 24:
The earth is the LORD’s, and the fullness thereof,athe world and all who dwell therein.
2For He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters.
Prov 20:5The intentions of a man’s heart are deep waters, but a man of understanding draws them out.
Proverbs 18:4The words of a man's mouth are deep waters; the fountain of wisdom is a bubbling brook.
Isa 51:
16I have put My words in your mouth, and covered you in the shadow of My hand,
to establishb the heavens, to found the earth, and to say to Zion, ‘You are My people.’”
Gen 1:
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.
Do not go by sight but by understanding. Your fallen understanding is the one that creates the physical world which passes away as it decays. Through Christ (second Adam), the spiritual is restored with the renewal of thy mind and so is the whole creation:
Rom 8:18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.