Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[Wansvic]

The eliciting of two verses in the word of God is the error.

As recorded, God's truth is brought to light, being confirmed, by 2-3 witnesses:

Matt 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Cor 13:1
...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Deut 19:15
at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

 

[garee]

After John was be headed we know he didn’t baptize anybody anymore, when Jesus and disciples left the area after some days, there is no mentioning of people coming out to Jesus to be baptized, the mentioning of baptism is pretty much none existent after John is beheaded. Other then the one mentioning Jesus baptizing more but John was still alive, but after John dies that is it as far as water is concerned

John 3: 25 speaks of the changing of the priesthood. Taking it away from the Levites the temporal what the eyes see. Giving it to all the nations of the world as the manner of Melchedik in order to qualify Christ as our High Priest continually with beginning or end.(Hebrew 7) . Jesus from the tribe of Judah is shown in John 3: 25 making the transfer of preaching the gospel to all the nation of the world. Study how the word Melchedik is used .

 

[IlovelivingforJesus]

God may your will be done.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You wonder if most act this way? So Your bias is used on a video and not on the context of that site? I guest all baptist are like Westbro yelling the "N" word and shouting " Gay" going to hell" ?
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are found in 1cor chapter 12 through chapter 14. The Book of Acts chapter 2. and Prophesied in Joel 2 and Jesus said would be in Mark 16. What you see are many things in this video

one is the location is and culture application which is error, notices as I pentecostal I said this was error. Two God still will work with the unlearned , and immature. That preacher will have to answer for not correcting it. I leave that to the Lord. But what I will not do is USE this error to discredit All that is perceived to be a work of the Holy Spirit according to the Word of God. This video is not authoritative Gods word is.

It's good to know that some would indicate it's unblblical.

By the way, I would still hold out the possibility that the gift of languages could still occur. I refuse to call it "tongues" though. I would define it as a gift of speaking or understanding other languages of men.

 

[garee]

As recorded, God's truth is brought to light, being confirmed, by 2-3 witnesses:

Matt 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Cor 13:1
...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Deut 19:15
at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

That seems to be a theme of the scriptures . Two or three working as one. Not one working independent of oneself .You could say triune a picture of the father and Son working as one god making up three which is used to represent the end of a matter.

It is one of the reason of one of my own pet peeves .Changing the meaning of a singular word. It can change the intent of the author and can affect the outcome or purpose. We are commanded not to add or take away the meaning of a word as one of the laws to protect the integrity of the whole.

Sabbath, with no other meaning added = Rest

Different paraphrase's use other words to define the meaning .Making rest into a time sensitive word. And even in the few that do translate it as to its meaning rest sabbath in one place fail to follow it in others.

It can be seen by comparing the King James to the Youngs literal

9 times in the King James the word sabbath is used of by the word "week" a time senititive word. At that period of time when it was penned the Greek did not use the word week. I would say no need to use the word week even once.

3 times in the Youngs Literal.

Matthew 28 King James Version (KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Matthew 28 Young's Literal Translation (YLT) And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,

In the Youngs Literal it is the same with the King James. But when looking at the spiritual understanding of that parable it makes no sense to literalize it. The parable was between two different kinds of spirits that work in mankind . One spirit bragged he only ate twice of the sabbath, three meals the standard. And on the same Sabbath day gives tithes.

Not, I give tithes of all things twice in the week also. He was just assuming he had one up on whom the Lord blessed. The spirit of many in Mathew 7 who performed wonferful works of inquity.

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all things -- as many as I possess.

Are there any translations that do not use the word week in the New testement . If not. Why not?


14 I say to you, this one went down declared righteous, to his house, rather than that one: for every one who is exalting himself shall be humbled, and he who is humbling himself shall be exalted.'

 

[garee]

I wonder if most Pentecostals act this way.

If so, I would never make a good one. I would not be able to get up after flopping on the floor like this.

Maybe the Pentecostals/charismatics can tell me.

I would think if we would look to the foundation of why God would mock those with stammering lips that mocked him.It would be a god place to start.

They are described as those who follow the oral tradition of men not desiring to get under the authority of all things written in the law and prophets. Also called sola scriptura. The reforming authority of his bride the church as it is written .

He has set up a sign that can help us to know who we can offer the gospel understanding as it is written .Revealing . the "spirit of judgement" indicated by those who fall backward slain in the spirit. "yet they would not hear"

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.Isaiah 28: 11-13

They as it seems have turned it upside down and made it into a false blessing mocking God. . Believers fall forward and rise up . leaping, rejoicing skipping in their new spirit and new desires. The gospel.

Song of Solomon 2:8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

In the Bible, leaping, skipping rejoicing as moved by a wonder it all works together to represent "walking by faith", the unseen voice. Or called Hidden Manna spoken of in Revelation 2.

 

[CS1]

As recorded, God's truth is brought to light, being confirmed, by 2-3 witnesses:

Matt 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2 Cor 13:1
...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Deut 19:15
at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Context and authorial intent with all the Bibles says about the topic maters. not just two verses on the topic. Good try.

 

[Wansvic]

Context and authorial intent with all the Bibles says about the topic maters. not just two verses on the topic. Good try.

There are many verses that state one is to use the name of Jesus in water baptism. My point was that one stand alone verse that seemed to contradict others should be examined. Upon examination it is clear that Jesus stated to use a singular name. And since IN Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily (Col 2:9) it stands to reason the singular name to use is Jesus.

 

[CS1]

There are many verses that state one is to use the name of Jesus in water baptism. My point was that one stand alone verse that seemed to contradict others should be examined. Upon examination it is clear that Jesus stated to use a singular name. And since IN Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily (Col 2:9) it stands to reason the singular name to use is Jesus.

only if you think there is not Godhead.

 

[Sipsey]

There are many verses that state one is to use the name of Jesus in water baptism. My point was that one stand alone verse that seemed to contradict others should be examined. Upon examination it is clear that Jesus stated to use a singular name. And since IN Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily (Col 2:9) it stands to reason the singular name to use is Jesus.

Sometimes our human nature gets in the way of simple thanksgiving and worship. The thief on the cross and the little guy in the tree are two examples. When our attitude is adjusted through repentance, then our heart is made right before God. That heart, and not our clumsy attempts to impress anyone with our words, is what us allows us an audience and fellowship with God.

 

[Wansvic]

only if you think there is not Godhead.

The apostolic interpretation of Jesus' words is demonstrated consistently in the biblical record. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ is the Name of the Godhead bodily. Notice that it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell.

The name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is expressed in Jesus. Also, Jesus is the family name Paul mentioned in Ephesians.(3:14-15) This truth is expressed by Paul over and over in scripture. (Col 2:12, Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-4, 1 Cor 1:10-17) In addition, Paul reminds the Corinthians that they were not "baptized into the name of Paul" but into the name of the one who was crucified for them. Of course everyone knows who that was, it was none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;..." (Col 1:18-19)

"In Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily." (Col 2:9)

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," (Eph 3:14-15)

 

[Wansvic]

Sometimes our human nature gets in the way of simple thanksgiving and worship. The thief on the cross and the little guy in the tree are two examples. When our attitude is adjusted through repentance, then our heart is made right before God. That heart, and not our clumsy attempts to impress anyone with our words, is what us allows us an audience and fellowship with God.

Sometimes human nature gets in the way of being obedient to the Word. The examples given are truths expressed from the Word. The Word alone is impressive.

As for the thief and the little guy perched in the tree, both recorded experiences occurred prior to Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. The New Testament command of required obedience to repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Ghost did not pertain to them.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The apostolic interpretation of Jesus' words is demonstrated consistently in the biblical record. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ is the Name of the Godhead bodily. Notice that it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell.

The name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is expressed in Jesus. Also, Jesus is the family name Paul mentioned in Ephesians.(3:14-15) This truth is expressed by Paul over and over in scripture. (Col 2:12, Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-4, 1 Cor 1:10-17) In addition, Paul reminds the Corinthians that they were not "baptized into the name of Paul" but into the name of the one who was crucified for them. Of course everyone knows who that was, it was none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;..." (Col 1:18-19)

"In Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily." (Col 2:9)

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," (Eph 3:14-15)

If I am not mistaken, you are trying to teach Oneness theology..it is incoherent though.

The problem is that the NT reveals interactions between various persons of the Triune God.

Oneness theology is akin to sock-puppet activity. The puppeteer puts one sock-puppet on his hand to play one role, and puts another sock-puppet on his hand afterwards to play another role. There is no real relationships within sock-puppet Oneness theology.

Which means it is incoherent and unintelligible in a New Testament context.

 

[garee]

The apostolic interpretation of Jesus' words is demonstrated consistently in the biblical record. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ is the Name of the Godhead bodily. Notice that it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell.

The name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is expressed in Jesus. Also, Jesus is the family name Paul mentioned in Ephesians.(3:14-15) This truth is expressed by Paul over and over in scripture. (Col 2:12, Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-4, 1 Cor 1:10-17) In addition, Paul reminds the Corinthians that they were not "baptized into the name of Paul" but into the name of the one who was crucified for them. Of course everyone knows who that was, it was none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;..." (Col 1:18-19)

"In Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily." (Col 2:9)

"For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," (Eph 3:14-15)

I think the focus should first be. How does the Bible use the words "in the name of", seeing every word has a meaning assigned to it. "In the name of" would seem to be "according to or in respect of. Not something we do as if God was served by human corruptible hands. In the name of God who works in us to both will reveal his will and give a desire to work it out with us. Our Emanuel

The name of the Lord Jesus Christ it uses more than one immutable attribute.

Lord = unseen Good Master . Therefore call no man earth Lord. One unseen is in heaven is.

God is not a man as us and neither is there is any fleshly, infallible interpreter that stands between God and man

Jesus = savior Like Joshua. And when mixed with the All-powerful One "El Shaddai" two attributes are used to describe Jehovah.

Jehovah. . . .Our Mighty God has become the savior of a nation. It is used to represent the people of God as those who do walk by faith as it is written in the law and prophets .

Exodus 6:3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Isaiah 12:2Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Jehovah = our Strong Savoir,

Christ = the anointing Holy Spirit of God in respect to the unseen high priest . It is the power of the gospel that works in us. . . not of us. It teaches us guides us comforts us and brings to mind that which he has taught us

Not according to the power of the things seen, the temporal. Corruption has no power

The Holy Spirit expresses himself by the things not seen. It would seem the weapons of our warfare are not what the eyes see. And if not, then what the eyes see does not become source of the unseen . That would open the door way to the occult signs and lying wonders. Name it claim it.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Wansvic]

If I am not mistaken, you are trying to teach Oneness theology..it is incoherent though.

The problem is that the NT reveals interactions between various persons of the Triune God.

Oneness theology is akin to sock-puppet activity. The puppeteer puts one sock-puppet on his hand to play one role, and puts another sock-puppet on his hand afterwards to play another role. There is no real relationships within sock-puppet Oneness theology.

Which means it is incoherent and unintelligible in a New Testament context.

Beginning with my answer to post #787, I continued to reference scripture that answered the question of why apostles consistently water baptized in Jesus' name.

Denominational beliefs are of no consequence. Consider what made the Bereans more noble than the people of Thessalonica. Notice it had nothing to do with the group they belonged to. The people of Berea were willing to listen to others and search the scriptures to see if something was so:

"And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people." Acts 17:10-13

The Word of God is what everyone will be judged upon not an association to a particular denomination.

 

[CS1]

The apostolic interpretation of Jesus' words is demonstrated consistently in the biblical record. The name of the Lord Jesus Christ is the Name of the Godhead bodily. Notice that it pleased the Father that in Him (Jesus) should all fulness dwell.

The name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit is expressed in Jesus. Also, Jesus is the family name Paul mentioned in Ephesians.(3:14-15) This truth is expressed by Paul over and over in scripture. (Col 2:12, Gal 3:27, Rom 6:3-4, 1 Cor 1:10-17) In addition, Paul reminds the Corinthians that they were not "baptized into the name of Paul" but into the name of the one who was crucified for them. Of course everyone knows who that was, it was none other than the Lord Jesus Christ.

"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;..." (Col 1:18-19)

"In Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead (Father, Son and Holy Ghost) bodily." (Col 2:9)

"For this cause, I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named," (Eph 3:14-15)

The error in this oneness doctrine is that is trying to limit the God of The Bible while removing Very important Biblical accounts In The New Testament that cannot be explained with or explained away human reasoning In context to "EternalGodHead".

1. The Baptism of the Lord Himself Matthew 3:16-17

You dismiss the voice of God in verse 17 please explain that

2. The Mount of transfiguration Matt 17:4-6
The Voice of God speaks

3. Gen 1 and 2 chapters

 

[Wansvic]

The error in this oneness doctrine is that is trying to limit the God of The Bible while removing Very important Biblical accounts In The New Testament that cannot be explained with or explained away human reasoning In context to "EternalGodHead".

1. The Baptism of the Lord Himself Matthew 3:16-17

You dismiss the voice of God in verse 17 please explain that

2. The Mount of transfiguration Matt 17:4-6
The Voice of God speaks

3. Gen 1 and 2 chapters

I don't deny any of the accounts you reference.

In addition to the scriptures you reference, it is recorded that In Jesus dwells ALL of the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Therefore, your argument is with the Word.

We all have choices to make.

I submitted to water baptism in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost because that was the way baptism was done in the church I attended. However, after doing a thorough study of the topic and seeing what Jesus actually said, and how the apostles complied by water baptizing consistently in His name I made the choice to obey the Word.

I share what is noted in the biblical record in hopes others will study it out and see it for themselves.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Beginning with my answer to post #787, I continued to reference scripture that answered the question of why apostles consistently water baptized in Jesus' name.

Denominational beliefs are of no consequence. Consider what made the Bereans more noble than the people of Thessalonica. Notice it had nothing to do with the group they belonged to. The people of Berea were willing to listen to others and search the scriptures to see if something was so:

"And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people." Acts 17:10-13

The Word of God is what everyone will be judged upon not an association to a particular denomination.

Oneness people are not a denomination. They are cultists. Denial of the Trinity places one outside the borders of Christianity.

On the other hand, Trinitarian Pentecostalism is a denomination. I disagree with them, but still consider them Christian.

If anyone thinks that is rough, be aware that many Oneness Pentecostals teach that they are the only true believers.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You wonder if most act this way? So Your bias is used on a video and not on the context of that site? I guest all baptist are like Westbro yelling the "N" word and shouting " Gay" going to hell" ?
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are found in 1cor chapter 12 through chapter 14. The Book of Acts chapter 2. and Prophesied in Joel 2 and Jesus said would be in Mark 16. What you see are many things in this video

one is the location is and culture application which is error, notices as I pentecostal I said this was error. Two God still will work with the unlearned , and immature. That preacher will have to answer for not correcting it. I leave that to the Lord. But what I will not do is USE this error to discredit All that is perceived to be a work of the Holy Spirit according to the Word of God. This video is not authoritative Gods word is.

By the way, why do Pentecostals/charismatic refer to those gifts as "tongues"?

It's plain the meaning is language, and not "tongues". God doesn't give the person a new tongues.

I guess it's because of faulty translations..and I think if some future bible translation translated it properly as "languages" or "dialects" the charismatic/Pentecostal community would go hog wild over it

That might clarify some issues though. Because the Greek infers languages or dialects.

 

[Wansvic]

"...when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people." Acts 17:10-13