If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

[UnitedWithChrist]

For the record, even though my wife is an SDA I don't believe that they are the 'true' church either, but rather just another body of believers in Christ. Jesus said that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name He would be in the midst of them.

You are correct about the Sunday observance being associated with the mark of the beast. I don't believe this to be accurate because as it now stands, most people in the world don't even attend church regardless of the day being Saturday or Sunday.

However, the SDA do believe that salvation comes from contrite confession of sin, Jesus dying of the cross for the remission of sin and that by inviting the Holy Spirit to live inside you He will comfort and guide you in the lifelong repentance process.

Many years ago I used to read the Plain Truth, a monthly magazine put out by the World Wide Church of God. Interesting reading but not really scripturally sound.

Yes, the Sabbath is a core belief of the SDA. Since the forth commandment states to 'remember' to keep holy the Sabbath, this doctrine has spiritual basis that merits serious consideration in my opinion. Yeah, they got a lot of dietary rules that the members are urged to follow but also say that it is not a sin if one choses to disregard them.

As a denomination I would have to say that the SDA is a spiritually sound body of believers but what do I know since I was born and raised a Catholic. That particular denomination has its share of spiritual issues as well but there is a firm spiritual correct salvation message, Yeah, they throw in a lot of side issues that are spiritually suspect as well that distract from the gospel message.

The SDA organization is not consistent...I believe there are some which are close to orthodox, with others being heretical.

The African ones are closer to being heretical in most respects, but Africans do not believe abortion is permissible like the SDA organization teaches.

Plain Truth was just the tip of the iceberg. It was formulated to attract prophecy nuts. My Armstrongite pastor called it the "worm" that covers the hook. Prophecy nuts would read it, then get hooked on Armstrongism through other materials. I was the son of an Armstrongite member, though, so I didn't really get hooked by the Plain Truth. Funny thing is, I strongly disliked Herbert Armstrong as a young person. I used to call him Pervert Armstrong and my mother would have fits. But, then eventually, I gullibly accepted his teachings.

I have one Facebook friend who is a SDA and I like him. I believe he has a good understanding of Christianity. But, he won't join their general conference due to their position on abortion.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

My parents really didn't go to church that I remember. My Aunt took me to SDA church with her kids so that is what I know.

Ellen White did not claim to be a prophet.

The stance of the SDA church is not in favor of abortion just read a legal document stating such, however, they realize that members may be confronted with a hard choice and do not ostracise or cut them off from being a church member if they may have had an abortion.

I can't answer for what any hospital no matter affiliation does at the facility and to hear you go on about it we are all guilty if it is done in a hospital affiliated with the church.

I just find it annoying when anyone goes on about anything in an attack mode with an I know all about them mentallity when they also claim they haven't read anything by the person or church they are attacking... Now if you told me you were a long time member and changed your direction but had actually studied and read and really know about what you are talking about then I probably would not be in a defense stance. But I feel that you are unfairly attacking a denomination that you really know little about on a personal level.

God is pro choice and what I mean by that is that He give us free choice to make decisions good or bad but has given us guidelines in the form of the 10 commandments to go by on what He would like for us to choose. God does not force us to do what He would like for us to choose to do.

If you feel that Ellen is a false prophet then prove and make sure you know that she is a false prophet again I would suggest you read The Desire of Ages which is about Jesus and then tell me that a woman who never claimed to be a prophet is a false prophet. But ya won't do it even though you would benefit reading about the life of Jesus.

Again I don't usually defend Ellen as personally the Bible is the Book we need to apply to our lives. Some of the quotes you are putting out are books that were compiled and not written from first to last word by Ellen they were articles she had written that someone put together like articles and made a book.

Books like Desire of Ages, Patriarchs and Prophets are ones she wrote as a book and not compiled by someone in the foundation of her writings.

This article was written by an ex SDA:

http://www.lifeassuranceministries.org/proclamation/2014/2/abortioninadvent.html

It shows Adventism's history concerning abortions.

Regarding Ellen G. White's visions, everyone within the SDA church knows that she claimed inspiration for them. She may not have specifically called herself a prophet, but what do you call a person who claims inspiration for their visions and dreams? You call them a prophet.

And, you really have to be bold to issue "corrections" to me concerning the SDAs and their teachings. You know that their basic accusation is that Christianity is a dupe for Roman Catholicism, and Sunday observance proves it. They believe that they are the true church, and everyone else is "other sheep". You know that they believe Sunday observance is associated with the Mark of the Beast, thus implying Satan worship.

It's the same teachings as the Armstrongite cult I came from. The only difference is that they acknowledge some individuals in other organizations are real believers. However, they do NOT affirm that those organizations are Christian....they believe they are associated with Babylon due to Sunday observance.

Like I have said, the intention of these groups is simply to reduce Christianity to Seventh Day Adventism, with all other organizations being viewed as non-Christian due to Sabbath issues. It is the same thing with all Restorationist Movement organizations. You should study Restorationism.

But, if you don't want me to discuss it, don't bring up SDA teachings. Because I am going to expose Sabbatarians and organizations associated with them. And, with the SDAs, it is accurate to state that they DO in fact support abortion. In fact, you can see statements on their own website concerning it.

They are perfectly fine with parents of Down's Syndrome children chopping them to bits in the womb. They are not entitled to the right to live, and can simply be chopped out of existence. That is the position of the SDA organization.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

What do you mean that you can not pay the DEBT, GOD says YOU can pay it to, YOU just can't PAY IT AND live.
the WAGES OF SIN IS death, so YOU CAN pay THE debt, SO you just WOULD, HAFT to die to pay it, SO yes WE can pay it, But GOD wanted us to LIVE, SO HE paid it for us if we would repent, and Quit sinning. TO turn away from sin, 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning, For this purpose the Son of GOD was manifested, that HE might destroy the works of the devil. As long as we continue in sin, JESUS HAS not destroyed the sin that is in us, By repenting and turning away from our sins, JESUS destroys the sin that is in us, through repentance. And HIS death, You are trying to say that we don't haft to KEEP the commandments, THEN YOU DON'T have any thing to REPENT OF ,BECAUSE WITHOUT the COMMANDMENTS YOU CAN NOT SIN AGAINST GOD. And if there is no more Commandments, Then JESUS has more, REASON TO punish the lost ether, FOR that is what makes them lost. THE wages of their sins. IS death, NO commandments, NO sins, Sins remain BECAUSE the COMMANDMENTS still REMAIN,
1 peter 4:18 AND If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear???????
GOD bless as HE sees fit
GOD bless as he sees fit

I have no clue why you are addressing this long diatribe to me.

Here is a biblical view of salvation:

1. God elects particular individuals to salvation.
2. God gives them a heart of flesh, to replace their heart of stone, and this heart of flesh produces faith and repentance.
3. God united the believer with Christ. Christ dwells within them through the mediation of the Holy Spirit.
4. Christ progressively sanctifies them throughout their lives, transforming them into the image of Christ.
5. Believers are no longer under sin, but they are under grace. This does not mean that they should continue in sin, but they are no
longer under its' condemnation. In fact, they are being transformed into the image of Christ, and they should live holy lives.

The real issue is, what is sin? Sin is rebellion against God of any type. It doesn't matter if it's listed in the Ten Commandments or not. For example, drunkenness isn't listed in the Ten Commandments.

And, sin for an Israelite isn't sin for me. Israelites had specific laws that were given to them, and not to all mankind. It is your claim that Sabbathkeeping was given to all mankind. That's not my position, due to Romans 14, Colossians 2:16-17, and other verses which indicate calendar observances or dietary observances are not part of God's law for New Covenant believers.

Therefore, I have no more sensitivity to the Sabbath than to physical circumcision.

And, I used to be a Sabbathkeeper as a cultic Armstrongite.

It would be interesting to know what evil lies in your heart, and what things you do. As a good SDA, perhaps you think that the outward observances of Sabbath and dietary rules justify you to God, and you have filthy thoughts still abounding in your thought life. The Pharisees were like that. They judged others based on outward things while having filthy thought lives. Are you as fixated on your thought life, or your words, as you are on the Sabbath and your diet? It would be interesting to know. I'm not asking you to tell me, but perhaps you can think about it yourself.

Did you come in here to debate Sunday observers on the Sabbath? Is that permissible?

 

[preacher4truth]

Ellen White did not claim to be a prophet.

Yet it is of no matter whether she "claimed" the title. The fact remains: she prophesied, yet falsely.

The SDA sect claims her to be a prophet, albeit, again, she's was a false prophet. Not "claiming oneself a prophet" while "prophesying" doesn't negate Scripture that declares those who prophesy falsely are not of God and/or have not spoken for God.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Yet it is of no matter whether she "claimed" the title. The fact remains: she prophesied, yet falsely.

The SDA sect claims her to be a prophet, albeit, again, she's was a false prophet. Not "claiming oneself a prophet" while "prophesying" doesn't negate Scripture that declares those who prophesy falsely are not of God and/or have not spoken for God.

She also warned those who read her words that if they didn't listen to her it would be at their own peril.

It's obvious she claimed to be directly speaking for God.

One of my acquaintances, who is SDA, told me that about a third of the content of SDA sermons in some congregations is "Sister White said..." rather than appealing directly to the Bible.

He was very uncomfortable with that, because it occurred in many SDA churches.

If I had continued as a Sabbathkeeper, it would have been with Seventh Day Baptists or something...NOT SDAs or Armstrongites. Both are cultic at some level or some congregations. Some deny the Trinity, even though they pretend to believe it (they are tri-theists but claim the evangelical understanding of the Trinity is "Roman Catholic").

I haven't heard bad things about Seventh Day Baptists though.

 

[Grandpa]

She also warned those who read her words that if they didn't listen to her it would be at their own peril.

It's obvious she claimed to be directly speaking for God.

One of my acquaintances, who is SDA, told me that about a third of the content of SDA sermons in some congregations is "Sister White said..." rather than appealing directly to the Bible.

He was very uncomfortable with that, because it occurred in many SDA churches.

If I had continued as a Sabbathkeeper, it would have been with Seventh Day Baptists or something...NOT SDAs or Armstrongites. Both are cultic at some level or some congregations. Some deny the Trinity, even though they pretend to believe it (they are tri-theists but claim the evangelical understanding of the Trinity is "Roman Catholic").

I haven't heard bad things about Seventh Day Baptists though.

Its just confusion.

Its someone who started out with a good intention. And then made it into a religious observance. And then other people followed.

Because you have to think that people just want to do what they think is right before the Lord.

They just missed a few scriptures, I guess. Like most of Galatians and half the rest of the NT.

 

[lightbearer]

I'm not a KJV Only guy and I disagree.

Does not matter whether you or I agree with it. Fact is the NIV and the other translation you posted ignored the word translated ordinances in the KJV. They also ignored the context and grammar.
Shame....

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Does not matter whether you or I agree with it. Fact is the NIV and the other translation you posted ignored the word translated ordinances in the KJV. They also ignored the context and grammar.
Shame....

The ESV is a better translation than the KJV.

Fact.

By the way, I believe that the translators of the NIV, ESV and KJV had reasons for their translation and that they are within the acceptable domain of the Greek words.

But, if you have a PhD in the original languages, perhaps I shall listen to your opinion. I'm guessing many of these translators had credentials like this, and it is hubris to think that some guy who may have a little informal Greek training can correct them.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Its just confusion.

Its someone who started out with a good intention. And then made it into a religious observance. And then other people followed.

Because you have to think that people just want to do what they think is right before the Lord.

They just missed a few scriptures, I guess. Like most of Galatians and half the rest of the NT.

I don't know what their motives were. It doesn't make their damage any less serious imho.

 

[gb9]

here is the thing-

sda's, Hebrew roots , or any offshoot of these, the center of their theology is Sabbath keeping.

many of them will deny this if they are asked.

them, when you come back and say " so, keeping the twilight fri- twilight sat. Sabbath is optional for Christ followers, they can keep it or not?", they will say some version of " well, it is not an option to disobey Scripture"

see how the mind trick works? this is why most of them are so dug in on this one issue.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

here is the thing-

sda's, Hebrew roots , or any offshoot of these, the center of their theology is Sabbath keeping.

many of them will deny this if they are asked.

them, when you come back and say " so, keeping the twilight fri- twilight sat. Sabbath is optional for Christ followers, they can keep it or not?", they will say some version of " well, it is not an option to disobey Scripture"

see how the mind trick works? this is why most of them are so dug in on this one issue.

One of their issues is that they are inconsistent.

They claim only one 24 hour slice of time is sanctified. This is the seventh day of the creation week. However, if they observe the Sabbath on one part of the earth sunset to sunset, they are observing a different slice of time depending on where they are on the earth.

And...sunset to sunset can be several days long during certain parts of the year depending on what part of the globe you are at.

That is why Ellen G. White legislated that certain parts of the globe cannot be inhabited by SDAs.

 

[gb9]

One of their issues is that they are inconsistent.

They claim only one 24 hour slice of time is sanctified. This is the seventh day of the creation week. However, if they observe the Sabbath on one part of the earth sunset to sunset, they are observing a different slice of time depending on where they are on the earth.

And...sunset to sunset can be several days long during certain parts of the year depending on what part of the globe you are at.

That is why Ellen G. White legislated that certain parts of the globe cannot be inhabited by SDAs.

the Sabbath was set on the sacred calendar instituted by God through Moses.

if one is not precisely using that calendar, then they are not keeping the Biblical Sabbath.

 

[lightbearer]

Colossians 2:14 is talking about a recording of the sins of the believers, not the "Book of the Covenant".

By the way, you can't consistently maintain this, as the "Book of the Covenant" included the Sabbath, the Festivals, and the New Moons. All are mentioned after the Ten Commandments are given.

In addition, incest and other heinous crimes are also explained in the Book of the Covenant

And, you would claim the clean meat laws are still applicable, unless you are one of the vegetarian SDAs which is totally unbiblical and reflects asceticism. Even Jesus ate meat. He ate the Passover every year and he ate fish.

And he drank wine. He wouldn't have been a good SDA in your view.

The ESV is a better translation than the KJV.

Fact.

By the way, I believe that the translators of the NIV, ESV and KJV had reasons for their translation and that they are within the acceptable domain of the Greek words.

They are different yet you claim they are within the acceptable domain of the Greek words.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(Col 2:14 KJV)


14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. (NIV)

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Of course there is.

See Leviticus 12:1-2
Purification After Childbirth
1 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised.

Then see Genesis 3:15
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring[a] and hers;
he will crush[b] your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

The woman is unclean seven days. Her offspring, the son, will crush the head of the serpent and purification begins on the eighth day.

-----------------------

Then see new testamanet

Paul writes in Romans 2:29:
29 "circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter".

Then refer to John 20:26
26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”

Eight days is again significant. On the eighth day the Spirit brought the Son back to life. The very same Spirit that lives in us. Purification begins when we receive the Holy Spirit and our hearts become uncircumcised. We are sealed for the day of redemption when all things are made new. This is the eighth day.

CORRECTION: Purification begins when we receive the Holy Spirit and our hearts become circumcised.

 

[mailmandan]

CORRECTION: Purification begins when we receive the Holy Spirit and our hearts become circumcised.

Acts 15:8 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

 

[bud62]

Revelation 21:23 - And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed. That settles it for me. Please take to time to further meditate on post #195.

We haft nto base our beliefs On the BIBLE as a whole, If you don't then BIBLE, Want Line up together like fence post, And it makes other parts look Wrong, Just because you can take one verse that makes you look right, DOSE NOT make you right, And can make us miss under stand other parts of THE BIBLE, GOD bless as HE sees fit.

 

[lightbearer]

the Sabbath was set on the sacred calendar instituted by God through Moses.

if one is not precisely using that calendar, then they are not keeping the Biblical Sabbath.

The Jews have always been persistent and faithful in observing the Sabbath. If they believed God had given them a lunar Sabbath, they would not have given it up without a major struggle. There would be records everywhere in history about the resistance of the Jews in changing their method of keeping Sabbath. Since the Jews were spread throughout the nations of the world it would have required an army of missionaries going everywhere to convince and enforce the change of their Sabbath-keeping from the lunar method to the weekly cycle. There should have been pockets of Jews worldwide ferociously clinging to the old ways that God had given them and many Jewish groups still keeping the lunar Sabbath to this day. But the exact opposite is true. History is absolutely silent as to any such events taking place. There are no recorded commands given to change the cycle from a lunar to weekly Sabbath.... https://adventistbiblicalresearch.o...-sabbath-are-adventists-keeping-wrong-sabbath

 

[mailmandan]

We haft nto base our beliefs On the BIBLE as a whole, If you don't then BIBLE, Want Line up together like fence post, And it makes other parts look Wrong, Just because you can take one verse that makes you look right, DOSE NOT make you right, And can make us miss under stand other parts of THE BIBLE, GOD bless as HE sees fit.

It's called properly harmonizing scripture with scripture (which I did in post #195) before reaching our conclusion on doctrine. So are you telling me that the bolded words from Revelation 21:23-25 in post #195 don't really mean what they say? Are you seeking to force Revelation 21:23-25 to somehow "conform" to your biased interpretation of Isaiah 66:22-23? Is that your method of hermeneutics?

 

[gb9]

The Jews have always been persistent and faithful in observing the Sabbath. If they believed God had given them a lunar Sabbath, they would not have given it up without a major struggle. There would be records everywhere in history about the resistance of the Jews in changing their method of keeping Sabbath. Since the Jews were spread throughout the nations of the world it would have required an army of missionaries going everywhere to convince and enforce the change of their Sabbath-keeping from the lunar method to the weekly cycle. There should have been pockets of Jews worldwide ferociously clinging to the old ways that God had given them and many Jewish groups still keeping the lunar Sabbath to this day. But the exact opposite is true. History is absolutely silent as to any such events taking place. There are no recorded commands given to change the cycle from a lunar to weekly Sabbath.... https://adventistbiblicalresearch.o...-sabbath-are-adventists-keeping-wrong-sabbath

so, now you are saying that God did NOT specifically command when the Sabbath ( and the special Sabbaths ) were to be kept??

 

[lightbearer]

so, now you are saying that God did NOT specifically command when the Sabbath ( and the special Sabbaths ) were to be kept??

The Seventh Day is the Sabbath of our Lord our God.

God has said,
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."
(Exo 20:8-12 KJV)