Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[mailmandan]

Actually we don't need "essence /nature"

It clouds the word .

God is one.
One God
God is 3 period. The word confirms it eloquently.
One yet 3.
Not "essence"or "nature"....just one.

One in essence/nature actually helped me to understand. When I was a child, I was very mixed up about the Trinity. I saw God the Father as one God, all powerful, all knowing, yet I placed Jesus below God the Father and thought of "Son" of God as "junior" or "inferior" to the Father, yet still powerful. I also thought of the Holy Spirit as a bunch of guardian angels. I was one confused child! Once I got older and someone explained it to me as one God in essence/nature, then I understood that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were co-equal (and one was not superior to the other in essence/nature) yet three distinct persons.

 

[Noose]

One in essence/nature actually helped me to understand. When I was a child, I was very mixed up about the Trinity. I saw God the Father as one God, all powerful, all knowing, yet I placed Jesus below God the Father and thought of "Son" of God as "junior" or "inferior" to the Father, yet still powerful. I also thought of the Holy Spirit as a bunch of guardian angels. I was one confused child! Once I got older and someone explained it to me as one God in essence/nature, then I understood that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were co-equal (and one was not superior to the other in essence/nature) yet three distinct persons.

You mean like you and me, we share the same nature/essence yet we are distinct? One humanity, two humans.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

So how many Gods are those?

One God

 

[mailmandan]

You mean like you and me, we share the same nature/essence yet we are distinct? One humanity, two humans.

Yet we are not God in essence/nature.

 

[Noose]

Yet we are not God in essence/nature.

So that only means three Gods just as it means three humans.

 

[mailmandan]

So that only means three Gods just as it means three humans.

No, ONE God in essence, three in person. You seem to have a very difficult time comprehending this.

 

[Noose]

No, ONE God in essence, three in person. You seem to have a very difficult time comprehending this.

Yes, i'm having some difficulties. Me and you share one essence yet we are two distinct persons/two distinct humans- isn't this correct?

 

[Alertandawake]

Examine this post of yours. You have a concept of God. You then make the bible fit it.

My post was very clear, I want to know how you trinitarians believe in God. This 1 and 3 concept makes no sense. Secondly, the bible is clear that God is ONE. Deu 6:4 makes that quite clear. Thirdly, it is you trinitarians that have a concept of God that is different to what is in the bible. God is ONE. And Jesus himself made that quite clear in Mark 12.29, which is a clear reference to Deu 6:4

No "trinitarian" can fully explain God.

Why not? With the other Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Islam, at least if you ask a Jew or a Muslim how many is God, they will reply with "ONE" as a answer, as these are both strictly monotheistic beliefs.

Come to mainstream Christianity (trinity belief) the whole thing is a complicated mess.

Like paul we see in part. We see The Father is eternal Diety and a person. He looks like us.
We see Jesus. Eternal and God -Man. He is a person. We see the Holy Spirit. Diety and referred to as a person.
Jesus prayed that we would be one as THEY are one.

Who did Jesus pray to? When people pray, they pray to a superior being. Did Jesus pray to himself? Or did he pray to his God?
You trinitarians believe Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. Now let us put this under a microscope and see what is actually being said. Now to my understanding, an Eternal being as no beginning and no end. Man on the other hand is not eternal, man is a creation, man has a beginning.

So by your trinitarians belief when you say Jesus is God and man, you are actually saying Jesus is God and not God, at the same time.

 

[Noose]

My post was very clear, I want to know how you trinitarians believe in God. This 1 and 3 concept makes no sense. Secondly, the bible is clear that God is ONE. Deu 6:4 makes that quite clear. Thirdly, it is you trinitarians that have a concept of God that is different to what is in the bible. God is ONE. And Jesus himself made that quite clear in Mark 12.29, which is a clear reference to Deu 6:4



Why not? With the other Abrahamic religions, Judaism and Islam, at least if you ask a Jew or a Muslim how many is God, they will reply with "ONE" as a answer, as these are both strictly monotheistic beliefs.

Come to mainstream Christianity (trinity belief) the whole thing is a complicated mess.



Who did Jesus pray to? When people pray, they pray to a superior being. Did Jesus pray to himself? Or did he pray to his God?
You trinitarians believe Jesus is 100% God and 100% man. Now let us put this under a microscope and see what is actually being said. Now to my understanding, an Eternal being as no beginning and no end. Man on the other hand is not eternal, man is a creation, man has a beginning.

So by your trinitarians belief when you say Jesus is God and man, you are actually saying Jesus is God and not God, at the same time.

Acts 2:22“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, d put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

There's a clear distinction here between the man Jesus and God. If Peter thought that God is triune and Jesus is part of this trinity then his statement here is a big mess.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Yes, i'm having some difficulties. Me and you share one essence yet we are two distinct persons/two distinct humans- isn't this correct?

Noose!
Have some cake.

This cake has 3 layers. All the layers are one cake. Even separately the layers are still cake. From the same cake.
One cake.

 

[Noose]

Noose!
Have some cake.

This cake has 3 layers. All the layers are one cake. Even separately the layers are still cake. From the same cake.
One cake.

Correct except that one layer does not think the other layer is the 'only true cake' like Jesus said of the Father.

 

[Noose]

Correct except that one layer does not think the other layer is the 'only true cake' like Jesus said of the Father.

You see @Lucy-Pevensie , Godliness is the mystery here and not God. If you'll take time and understand what happened in the beginning (Genesis), then maybe you'll understand the mystery.

It is Adam that was made in the image of God, not Eve. And yes, the image of God is a plurality of authorities (Father and son - son here means man) just like the image of man (Adam) was plurality of authorities; male and female (The woman came from within a man). This is the mystery that is being spoken all over the scripture and for that reason, a man and a woman become one flesh and man and God become one through the man Christ.

Eph 5:25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing b her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” c 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Correct except that one layer does not think the other layer is the 'only true cake' like Jesus said of the Father.

Sure it does.

You do understand that one of Jesus' missions was to teach us as a man how to relate to God? To show us how.

 

[Noose]

Sure it does.

You do understand that one of Jesus' missions was to teach us as a man how to relate to God? To show us how.

Correct and to add to that, God himself manifested in the flesh in the form of Jesus. But this does not make Jesus the most high God because this is how God creates everything including the stones that you see around you; He manifests into all created things through the mind of a man (mankind).

What this means is that the universe is actually virtual. As much we think or see the universe as being physical and separate from us, it exists in our minds or rather, our consciousness creates the universe. And this forms the mystery of godliness, a profound mystery.

That's the reason Paul says:

Rom 8:18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that h the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

and

Col 1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Correct and to add to that, God himself manifested in the flesh in the form of Jesus. But this does not make Jesus the most high God because this is how God creates everything including the stones that you see around you; He manifests into all created things through the mind of a man (mankind).

What this means is that the universe is actually virtual. As much we think or see the universe as being physical and separate from us, it exists in our minds or rather, our consciousness creates the universe. And this forms the mystery of godliness, a profound mystery.

That's the reason Paul says:

Rom 8:18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that h the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

and

Col 1:15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

You're using verses that declare the divinity of Jesus to make the claim Jesus is not divine.
A bit muddled to say the least.

 

[Noose]

You're using verses that declare the divinity of Jesus to make the claim Jesus is not divine.
A bit muddled to say the least.

Correct, they declare the divinity of Christ to the same extent Peter declares divinity of believers here:

2 Pet 1:4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Or

Heb 2: 17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way,

Trust me, and if you don't want at least trust Paul; every way here means every way.

I repeat, God creates by manifesting into His creation so in a sense, everything is divine through Christ as much as everything fell from divine through Adam.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Correct, they declare the divinity of Christ to the same extent Peter declares divinity of believers here:

2 Pet 1:4Through these He has given us His precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, now that you have escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Or

Heb 2: 17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way,

Trust me, and if you don't want at least trust Paul; every way here means every way.

I repeat, God creates by manifesting into His creation so in a sense, everything is divine through Christ as much as everything fell from divine through Adam.

Look I've had enough of this.
You're on the verge of starting a new religion & I'm not interested.

1. 

 

[Noose]

Look I've had enough of this.
You're on the verge of starting a new religion & I'm not interested.

1. 

I myself think it is weird but it is not an impossibility as trinity is.

 

[Noose]

If anyone wants to know God, observe nature and then read the scripture to confirm what you have observed and concluded not the other way round. Scriptures are poetic, nature isn't.

Rom 1:19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

I have observed the universe and can confirm that reality is virtual, there's no other conclusion or possibility and the bible is correct. Weird as it is, it is true.

 

[bojack]

Acts 2:22“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, d put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

There's a clear distinction here between the man Jesus and God. If Peter thought that God is triune and Jesus is part of this trinity then his statement here is a big mess.

Peter knew who Jesus is .. muhammad don't have a clue and u-hammad don't either .. You must be ''born again''