Help!?!?!

[InkedFaith]

I am trying to get a straight answer to this. The bible read clear on the large scale and so it is easy to see how people can quote and apply verses to their lives. However my problem is when people quote laws. Many times I am quoted Leviticus laws by people who choose to live by some and not others. Okay I not allowed to scar my body but you cut your hair and beard. Now when you bring said things up someone is quick to explain that these laws are now out-dated and obsolete yet then will quote one to you in order to affirm their own point. This presents a complete problem for me as it says that I have to live by rules they think I should and yet they themselves do not live by anything inconvenient to themselves.

 

[zeroturbulence]

This is what Jesus said we must do to get into heaven...

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.”

20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”

Mark 10:17-23 NIV

 

[basschick]

(Just a warning-its late and its been a long day, so I'm not sure how much sense I'll make, but I wanted to try to share my view on the subject )

In the Bible there's the old and new testaments, which could also be called the old and new covenants. The old covenant consisted of the laws that were given to the people of Israel. Jesus fulfilled the old covenant and then made way for the new covenant so it could take effect. Christ's death and resurrection marked the transition from following a list of do's-and-don'ts and religious ceremonies (ie, sacrifices), to more personal and spiritual relationship where the Holy Spirit works in our individual hearts. It all plays an important role in HIS-story and the grand scheme of things, however we are under Jesus' blood and the new covenant.

I know there's a lot more references than just these; I can try looking them up tomorrow. My brain is ready for bed, haha!
Old covenant fulfilled - Matthew 5:17 Luke 24:44-48
New covenant established - Hebrews 8:7-13

I'm not saying that this is exactly the way it is, this is simply how I view the dilemma based on my studies. I hope that you figure out your answer! God bless

 

[ashleyisafreak]

I have trouble with people who use passages such as the Leviticus one to be against tattoos and body piercings and stuff because yes, if you believe that we are still under that covenant, no one should cut their hair or anything. But then they throw out that 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 where it says that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit saying now THAT was said under the new covenant, so we have to live by that one. The only problem with that is that that passage is for sexual sin but if you're going to use it in reference to how you try your body otherwise, you shouldn't be eating fast food, sitting around all day, piercing your ears, etc... doing anything that might cause harm would be a sin if you try and use that passage.

But yes, people pick and choose passages based on their own convenience.

 

[Forgiven66]

Jesus was asked what is the Greatest Commandment, His answer:
Matthew 22:37-40
37) Jesus said unto Him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38) This is the first and great commandment.
39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.'
40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Jewish people lived under the law--Old Covenant/Old Testament, we as Believers in Christ however live under grace--New Covenant/New Testament, Paul goes into great detail of this in Galatians 3-4.

People always think that James is speaking of Christians having to work the law, for their salvation (James 2:17; 26). But if one read James 2 carefully there is no such thing said. For James 2:8 tells us that if love our neighbour we do well, but James 2:9 states that if we respect person, we commit sin. And James 2:10 go on to state if you keep the whole law and yet offend in one point you are guilty of all. Than James 2:11 states what you are asking about InkedFaith, if you say don't commit adultery and you don't but you kill you are a trangressor of the law. The next two verses in James 2, verses 12-13 speaks of the law of liberty--GRACE; Paul speaks of this law of liberty (Galatians 5:11-15). The law of liberty is fulfilled in this "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Galatians 5:14.
Returning to James chapter 2 verses 14-16 describe how this law should work. For even John the Apostle speaks in a very similiar language to this in I John 3:16-18 for in verse 18 he said we should love in deed and truth. The work of the law of liberty is love.

For Paul speaking of the works of law by referring to circumcision told the Galatians:
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Galatians 5:6
He also stated:
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Galatians 5:4


We are told that love covereth sin. Proverbs 10:12; I Peter 4:8 Jesus told His disciples they would be know by what? For answer read John 13:34-35.

So my answer for those who want to quote Leviticus is I will stay in the love of God which He gave to us by His Son (Romans 5:8) His great gift of Grace (Romans 5:15, 19-20)

 

[Jullianna]

InkedFaith, we are under grace if we are hidden in Christ, not the law. Jesus came to fulfill the law.
Having said that, there IS a lot of wisdom in the law if we will heed it. No reason to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I don't pay much attention to the stone throwers though, InkedFaith. Doesn't seem like Jesus cared much for that sort of thing either:

John 8:7 - When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
Luke 6:42 - How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

God looks at our hearts and how we treat one another, not our hair or our tatts. God bless you, brother

 

[GreenNnice]

Zero, I like those verses, powerful, indeed, but I think those red-letter (Jesus personally speaking) word verses in Mark 10 there are of Jesus speaking to just that one man, for ALL of us have a personal plan from God, and, giving everything away is only in the plan for those called by God to do so. Some have great wealth and God wants them to keep it and use their talents to acquire more so that God can use it to do great things for bringing others to Christ and bringing glory to Him. Truly, as I see it, getting to Heaven simply requires believing in God as your personal saviour. ALL the other stuff , lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, etc. are sins we should keep out of our lives but they are not going to keep us from Heaven. Our life on Earth will be harder, much harder, for punishments will happen. As a result of David's adultery sin with Bathsheba, God took the child away. But David was contrite and cried his eyes out to God and God listened, for He gave King David another child with that repentance of Bathsheba sin.....the most poetic man ever was born next, richest, too. David's next child was Solomon


Basschick, very well said thoughts about the change of our relationship when new covenant came from New Testament.

 

[GreenNnice]

Inked, book of Romans spells out how important it is to follow God's laws, which are above man's laws. Also, judging fellow christians is something we should not do, for you look at the spec of dust in your brother's or sister's eye when you have a plank in your own eye , per book of Matthew, so ,tattoos, ear piercings, other sins of others are not as bad as your own sins. Speak to fellow believers in love, God will give you just the right words to say to a stumbling bro or sis and I can guarantee no judging of them will be part of what He tells you to say to them. We are choosing to play God and be holier than Thou and that will not sit right with the person you are speaking to and also it won't sit right with God. And if you think that's ok to judge, be prepared to be spanked, so to speak, by God, and, have a rump so sore you won't be able to sit for a week :-(

 

[Protection_Retribution]

This applys to all religion this happens in all religion if you want to be ain a religion get used to it

 

[NodMyHeadLikeYeah]

The only real verse you need to follow is

Women should not wear mens apparel.

 

[zeroturbulence]

The only real verse you need to follow is

Women should not wear mens apparel.

..and that really is in the bible! (somewhere in leviticus probably)

 

[zeroturbulence]

Zero, I like those verses, powerful, indeed, but I think those red-letter (Jesus personally speaking) word verses in Mark 10 there are of Jesus speaking to just that one man, for ALL of us have a personal plan from God, and, giving everything away is only in the plan for those called by God to do so. Some have great wealth and God wants them to keep it and use their talents to acquire more so that God can use it to do great things for bringing others to Christ and bringing glory to Him. Truly, as I see it, getting to Heaven simply requires believing in God as your personal saviour. ALL the other stuff , lying, cheating, stealing, adultery, etc. are sins we should keep out of our lives but they are not going to keep us from Heaven. Our life on Earth will be harder, much harder, for punishments will happen. As a result of David's adultery sin with Bathsheba, God took the child away. But David was contrite and cried his eyes out to God and God listened, for He gave King David another child with that repentance of Bathsheba sin.....the most poetic man ever was born next, richest, too. David's next child was Solomon


Basschick, very well said thoughts about the change of our relationship when new covenant came from New Testament.

I agree that we shouldn't give everything away and that God gives us wealth so we can do greater things to His glory. I know God punished David that way for killing Bathsheba's husband and cheating with her, but under the new covenant Jesus died so that sins may be forgiven, so I believe that as long as we have a repentant heart, confess our sins, and try to follow the big ten we will make it to heaven. As far as punishing, I believe that God now only tests instead of punishes His children, but thats just my personal opinion. I know the scripture about disciplining kids with a rod, but if you repented and it was forgiven then why would He punish whats already forgiven?

 

[zeroturbulence]

... I'm just saying that I think that under the new covenant, we have access to God's forgiveness and mercy through Jesus Christ, our merciful savior who has been given all authority to judge.

 

[GreenNnice]

Zero, good words, our Lord says we are saved by grace, not works, that no man or woman should boast (Don't brag about keeping 10 commandments). Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. God only says that we need to believe in Him for eternal life with God and not fire. Yes, we need to try not to sun, the 'big ten' asyou said, but....that kind of clean share will NOT keep us from eternity with God . That is beautiful, simple thing to believe is not it? I referenced a couple scriptures too, besides John 3:16, but I can't quite remember where, both scriptures from the New Testament.

Kirk Cameron has a show on TBN with Seams ? And it is about being good and not going to Heaven.

 

[GreenNnice]

Zero, punishment or testing, its from God for us meant to have us go through something that wikl strengthen our relationship with Him and keep us travelling down that narrow road

 

[zeroturbulence]

Thank you, GreenNnice. I am glad that we can agree And yes I saw that program with Kirk Cameron telling people how being good is not enough. I personally believe that once we are saved, God will not let us die in our sins even if he has to delay our time or send an angel of mercy to us so that we can repent before our hearts stop beating for good, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part too. I am familiar with John 3:16, and there is also a verse which says that once we are in the palm of God's hand, nothing can snatch us away from Him. I like to add that not even we can snatch ourselves from Him (but thats my opinion again).

 

[mit]

Leave the laws to the scribes and lawyers of today follow Christ and the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Today so long as we live by the spirit of God then we fulfil the law for the law of flesh no longer works in us. Christians for eons or so it seems have got into debates whereas in the mean time the enemy is working in our midst to bring down the church. In the background the enemy is destroying the unity as we chose to dwell on what divides us instead of dwelling on what makes us one!

 

[Lifelike]

I am trying to get a straight answer to this. The bible read clear on the large scale and so it is easy to see how people can quote and apply verses to their lives. However my problem is when people quote laws. Many times I am quoted Leviticus laws by people who choose to live by some and not others. Okay I not allowed to scar my body but you cut your hair and beard. Now when you bring said things up someone is quick to explain that these laws are now out-dated and obsolete yet then will quote one to you in order to affirm their own point. This presents a complete problem for me as it says that I have to live by rules they think I should and yet they themselves do not live by anything inconvenient to themselves.

Yeah i guess you have to look at who the laws were given too -> Israel. Israel was a "type" nation and God needed to be specific with them and the way they were - everything had meaning or typology (relating to Christ, and the nature of God). Realistically many laws and rituals/ ceremonies that were given to natural Israel, were types or shadows of truth relating to us - spiritual Israel. Many things that pertained to natural Israel does not apply to us. God has a New Covenant, otherwise we could have just kept the old, and joined Israel, submitting to their law and customs. These things have passed away.

 

[phil36]

Under the New Covenant we have freedom from the burden of the Law. However, the moral law that you read in the Old testament, you could say summed up the Ten Commandments, all Christians will want to follow, for the Spirit in us will guides us into all righteousness. The Other laws are purely for Isreal and the temple worship.

We no longer need purifying laws for we are purified in Christ, howvever, reading these Old Laws help us understand the New, we see that we are stained in every part of our lives with sin, evilness and rotteness. The God's people under the Mosaic covenantorary purify themselves through ritual to enter even the temple courts. But Now we have full access throught he work of Christ to the throne room, the Holiy of Holies were only priests had access and even then only once a year.

Blessings

 

[Ramon]

I am trying to get a straight answer to this. The bible read clear on the large scale and so it is easy to see how people can quote and apply verses to their lives. However my problem is when people quote laws. Many times I am quoted Leviticus laws by people who choose to live by some and not others. Okay I not allowed to scar my body but you cut your hair and beard. Now when you bring said things up someone is quick to explain that these laws are now out-dated and obsolete yet then will quote one to you in order to affirm their own point. This presents a complete problem for me as it says that I have to live by rules they think I should and yet they themselves do not live by anything inconvenient to themselves.

Oh yes my friend, the very attitude of self righteous people at play. Jesus warned us of this. If anyone thinks they will be justified by the law, the law will condemn them, because the requirement of the law is absolute perfection. However, the same people will take grace and make grace look like an excuse to sin.

The fulfillment of the Law is love. Not the love of man, but the love of God. Love enough to send his only Son Jesus to die, for ONLY ACTING IN LOVE!!

These types of people are the same today who worship scripture, but don't worship Jesus. It is recurring. Jesus fulfilled the law, and the prophets, but they killed him because they did not UNDERSTAND the law and the prophets. In the same way, people worship scripture but don't UNDERSTAND scripture. If they had known the condition of peace with God they would not have killed Jesus.

So you see, this is what you fight against till Jesus returns. Striving AGAINST sin, which comes out of the heart, and keeping the bond of peace in the unity of the Spirit. May Jesus bless you.