Has the second coming occurred already?

[cv5]

My question would be, where is the evidence of this? It’s seems not long after the Church was founded, problems arose. Almost 2000 years later we have many different Churches(denominations) that have perverted and strayed from Christ’s teachings. Could it be that the Olivet Discourse was foreshadowing of a future event? When will the new heaven and new earth come? What about the 3rd temple? Restoration of Israel? Millennial Kingdom?

All will occurr and exactly on schedule. See Chuck Missler Luke 21 youtube to get the picture.

 

[cv5]

contextually the second coming could not have happened. the second Coming must be seen as it is described in the Word of God:

There are so many descriptive things associated with the Second Coming of the Lord that was spoken Prophetically that did not happen yet in the Biblical account or Historically.

1. every eye will see HIm Rev 1:7
2. shout and sound of a trumpet 1thess 4:14
3. He will be coming with GREAT Glory and every tribe will mourn Matthews 24:30

all nations will see HIm This is no little event and there are more than30 scriptural references to the Second Coming.

Hundreds of scriptural references in fact. The ratio of references of the First Coming vs Second Coming are 1:8. Eight times greater references to the Second Coming.

 

[cv5]

Paul considered the gospel fully preached in "all the world" :

(Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.)

(Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister)

Paul is using Jesus' own words "every creature".

Paul's ministry was to the world "his course":

(Acts 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.)

He here he states he's finished his course:

(2 Tim 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith)


(Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.)

As for the context of "all the world" it should be understood as a "Jewism" with some hyperbole thrown in:

(John 12:19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.)



Babylon is apostate Israel which killed the prophets the prophets and apostles are told to rejoice over "her"

(Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.)

(Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.)

There is only on entity that was guilty of the blood of the prophets - Jerusalem:

(Luke 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!)

There are ZERO apostolic fathers who believed or preached that the SC had already occured.

 

[cv5]

Exactly when Daniel ch 2, prophecied He would, set-up His kingdom in the earth at the time of Rome; it would fill the whole Earth, His kingdom would never be removed and would never end.

In 70ad, the resurrection of the dead, the devil is no longer the ruler of the world!

And by the way there's your perfect paradigm that refutes the false prophecies of the secret snatching away of the church, in the 21st century or anyother time! That is if you give the prophets of God their due?!

But like I've said until you get this other crap out of your head, God will not allow you to get it, that's God's way.

Anyway I appreciate your question! Not trying to be rude but God only allows us to see what we can see! But you already know that 🤓

If you think that Jesus has come in His Glory with his Saints and an host of Angels you are in for quite a shock. BTW.....Acts 9:11 has not happened yet......not one shred of evidence.

 

[Absolutely]

All will occurr and exactly on schedule. See Chuck Missler Luke 21 youtube to get the picture.

I was just listening to his exodus series a few minutes ago.
He is an awesome teacher

 

[tourist]

No

i am telling you any other interpretation which does not align with what the scripture says is wrong

the Bible says when Jesus comes back. certain things will happen, and they did, We see a lot of things that literally came true exactly as the Bible said they would

The time
The signs
The miracles
Where he would come
What he would do
How h would be rejected
How the word would go to the peopel who are not his (gentiles)
How he would die *cursed is the one who hangs on a tree)
What his death would be like. (Psalms 52 as a prime example)

all these things literally came true

Using this as a means of interpreting the word wiht the word.

if these things LITERALLY COME TRUE, why would everything else SPIRITUALLY COME TRUE?

they should not. We use the already fulfilled as precedence as to how to interpret future prophecy

The fact is, if those things have not happened, (as the things said about the 1st advent literally came true) Jesus has not returned

the Bible also says God gives us signs through prophesy so that we can KNOW he is God, and he declairs the future he declares he does so. So when they do come true, the people living at the time can KNOW they came from him, and the fulfillment s are used as a TESTIMONY he is the one true God.

if these things do not happen, then The Whole purpose God gave for prophecy is destroyed and it is meaningless

In fact. Anyone can make prophecy say whatever they want it to. by just symbolizing what the literal word says and making the word agree with them. (IE, God is no more a prophet than say Nostradamus)

Everything God said concerning salvation has been fulfilled. I agree

Everything God said about the coming of Christ as king and the earth as it relates to that coming and essential reign has not

you trying to make it seem it has does not make it so

If you want to discuss, Discuss. COme at me again with the nonsense like you did in yoru first sentence ad I will discontinue our conversation. I refuse ot converse wth people who make silly remarks trying to belittle a person, instead of just sticking to the word.

I agree that everything related to the end-times is literally going to happen. Jesus has yet to from the clouds, the whole world has not seen Him, He has not set His foot on the Mt. of Olives and having it split in two from the east to the west. None of this has happen yet but it will indeed happen.

 

[Absolutely]

A new heavens and a new earth? Really?

Why wasn't the battle of Gog & Magog which includes ALL the nations surrounding Israel (not Rome) recorded in history?
A battle that big with such an outcome would have been recorded in human history. (Ezekiel 38 & 39, Rev 20)

Why is the sea still here? (Rev 21:1)

Why can I still see the light of the sun? (Rev 21:23, Rev 22:5)

Why do people still die? (Rev 21:4)

Why do people still mourn for people who still die? (Rev 21:4)

Why are millions of people (including Christians) still in pain? (Rev 21:4)

Why can't we see God face to face? (Rev 22:4)

As far as I can tell he never answered.
Did I miss where he answered?

 

[cv5]

We're not to worry about all that, we are to make disciples of all nations. You're not called to know everything you just asked, we're told to testify of our risen and victorious King!!!!

When will the new heaven and new earth come? When He wills and the 3 measures of flour are leavened and the mustard seed has grown into the full tree. Not overnight. What about the 3rd temple? I asked about it again in this thread with no answer from the biggest pre-trib person on here, the "3rd temple" is the biggest evidence all this stuff CAN'T take place in the future unless scripture changes, I can go more into this if you want, but God hasn't commanded a 3rd temple built, so it can not be desolated unless scripture is still open and God orders it built. If you have a way around this problem in order for "GOD'S" temple to be desecrated. If men build it then it's just a building. Restoration of Israel? Israel is ly restored now with His kingdom on earth spiritual Israel . Millennial Kingdom? Is now and Jesus the King is seated at the right hand of the Father ruling until all enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

I tried to answer your questions so please try to answer a few of mine,
Has God commanded men to build a third temple yet? What would be the purpose of a third temple when that age was clearly ended, and what His temple pointed to (Jesus and the redemption of the world) has already been come to pass and been fulfilled? If not this of course would mean that scripture is still open right? Do you believe that?

IMO it is entirely possible that the 3rd temple will be built post-rapture, even within the confines of the 70th week.....AFTER the man of sin makes a middle east peace treaty with Israel, but BEFORE the 3-1/2 year GT. Pure speculation an my part.

 

[cv5]

I was just listening to his exodus series a few minutes ago.
He is an awesome teacher

Indeed. Chuck is also the master of end-time prophecy truly. He lays it all out to perfection with no loose ends. All outstanding Covenants are satisfied, all prophecy is fulfilled....to the LETTER. Just as the Lord Jesus so emphatically declares.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Wow that's funny 😆! Paul said, Jesus was that new creation ie new heaven and Earth! The old heaven and Earth in Adam has passed away behold all things have become new in Christ Jesus!

According to Revelation 20:11 and 21:1, the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem comes after the tribulation and after the millennial kingdom which follows:

* Tribulation

* Second coming and the millennial kingdom

* Great white throne judgment (takes place after the millennial kingdom)

* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem

These things are all yet to be fulfilled.

"He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the former things have passed away."

People, both righteous and wicked, are still currently experiencing all of those things listed above. There is no reason to allegorize their meanings. Everyone in the new Jerusalem will have be in their immortal and glorified bodies which are eternal and therefore there will be no more death.

Truly, we have become new in Christ, i.e. we have been born again. We are new creations in Christ, yet we still have the sinful nature. Death, mourning and pain are still with us. When we are made immortal and glorified, then those things will cease to exist for us.

 

[garee]

contextually the second coming could not have happened. the second Coming must be seen as it is described in the Word of God:

There are so many descriptive things associated with the Second Coming of the Lord that was spoken Prophetically that did not happen yet in the Biblical account or Historically.

1. every eye will see HIm Rev 1:7
2. shout and sound of a trumpet 1thess 4:14
3. He will be coming with GREAT Glory and every tribe will mourn Matthews 24:30

all nations will see HIm This is no little event and there are more than30 scriptural references to the Second Coming.

God is not a man as us.

The reference is to days. The last day there will be a flash of lighting in the twinkling of the eye from east to west to represent the Son of man who will no longer appear in the flesh for another outward demonstration of Him and the father working as one.

Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

One demonstration is all that was promised to those who walk by faith the unseen eternal.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

 

[garee]

You can say that again. Was Gods arrival on Horeb noticeable? Were the plagues on Egypt real and historical and devastating? Well....at Christ's soon arrival (imminent now per Daniel 12) you can expect a spectacle and judgments ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE greater.

Greater than what? Thou shall surely die? Or the letter of the law death a living hell cast into the eternal judgment of God never to rise and condemn through corruption a entire creation.

How could it be greater tribulation then the one we are in as the last days ?

 

[pottersclay]

The second coming has not happened yet in fact this shouldn't be even a question to be answered.
Look around you...don't know what part of the world some live in but nothing's been restored as scripture says.
In my neck of the woods it falling apart quite quickly.
70 ad was an example of how things will get. Just a taste of things to come.
Those who live in that fairytale need to only look around. Stop indulging in the nonsense.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree that everything related to the end-times is literally going to happen. Jesus has yet to from the clouds, the whole world has not seen Him, He has not set His foot on the Mt. of Olives and having it split in two from the east to the west. None of this has happen yet but it will indeed happen.

Amen

if it does not happen as told it has not happened

don’t make some symbol to make it appear it has, that gives God a bad name

 

[garee]

I agree that everything related to the end-times is literally going to happen. Jesus has yet to from the clouds, the whole world has not seen Him, He has not set His foot on the Mt. of Olives and having it split in two from the east to the west. None of this has happen yet but it will indeed happen.

If we were to seek after the end time timing as a sign and wonder not fulfilled then a person misses out on the unseen spiritual understanding. The language is signified in the book of Revelation . Its interpretation understanding as signified is revealed in the first verse setting up the idea to look to the signified understanding as that not seen the eternal .In chapter 2 it is referred to as the "hidden manna" .

No one has received the promise spoken of in Hebrew 11 (all died not receiving a new incorruptible body not subject to age, called the chaste virgin bride of Christ .He named her Christian in the book of Acts .A befitting name meaning; Residents of the city of Christ" named after her husband the founder of the city.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I would offer we must be careful how we hear and understand. If our Loving God lovingly commands us through his living word to study to show one self approved of him it would seem he would teach us how. In that way he informs us call no man on earth teacher as Master and in the same context call no man earth Father one one is in heaven not seen. (the law of faith ) Even Jesus when accused of being Good Master gave glory to the unseen Father ,and said one is Good. . . .God

I thought of a verse in 1 John that I think comforted or repented my thought concerning

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is

How do we see Him who has no form as he is? .It would seem God has no face. His glory blinds faces. "Face to face" would seem to denote faith the unseen, to the same eternal faith. "faith to faith"

Amos 3:3 Can two walk "together", except they be agreed?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Emphasize on the word "and" in and the father or with. without that faith working in mankind no man could please .

Faith to faith . Mixing the unseen witness of God with the witness of men seen .

The law of faith. Believing that which has been revealed by the two witnesses. Moses to represent the letter of the law (death) and Elias coming in the unseen power of the gospel working together as one witness of God to create new spirit life.. .

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

 

[cv5]

If we were to seek after the end time timing as a sign and wonder not fulfilled then a person misses out on the unseen spiritual understanding. The language is signified in the book of Revelation . Its interpretation understanding as signified is revealed in the first verse setting up the idea to look to the signified understanding as that not seen the eternal .In chapter 2 it is referred to as the "hidden manna" .

No one has received the promise spoken of in Hebrew 11 (all died not receiving a new incorruptible body not subject to age, called the chaste virgin bride of Christ .He named her Christian in the book of Acts .A befitting name meaning; Residents of the city of Christ" named after her husband the founder of the city.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

I would offer we must be careful how we hear and understand. If our Loving God lovingly commands us through his living word to study to show one self approved of him it would seem he would teach us how. In that way he informs us call no man on earth teacher as Master and in the same context call no man earth Father one one is in heaven not seen. (the law of faith ) Even Jesus when accused of being Good Master gave glory to the unseen Father ,and said one is Good. . . .God

I thought of a verse in 1 John that I think comforted or repented my thought concerning

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is

How do we see Him who has no form as he is? .It would seem God has no face. His glory blinds faces. "Face to face" would seem to denote faith the unseen, to the same eternal faith. "faith to faith"

Amos 3:3 Can two walk "together", except they be agreed?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Emphasize on the word "and" in and the father or with. without that faith working in mankind no man could please .

Faith to faith . Mixing the unseen witness of God with the witness of men seen .

The law of faith. Believing that which has been revealed by the two witnesses. Moses to represent the letter of the law (death) and Elias coming in the unseen power of the gospel working together as one witness of God to create new spirit life.. .

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Textbook Gnosticism.

 

[cv5]

If you think that Jesus has come in His Glory with his Saints and an host of Angels you are in for quite a shock. BTW.....Acts 9:11 has not happened yet......not one shred of evidence.

Sorry...correction....Acts 1:11

 

[tourist]

Amen

if it does not happen as told it has not happened

don’t make some symbol to make it appear it has, that gives God a bad name

It certainly is disparaging to God. He is not a God of confusion.

 

[cv5]

There are ZERO apostolic fathers who believed or preached that the SC had already occured.

The Early Church Fathers: No Preterist Resurrection

http://www.velocity.net/~edju70/Preterism.htm

 

[azamzimtoti]

Yis He has:

(Heb 9:28 so also, after Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many, to those who eagerly await him he will appear a second time, not to bear sin but to bring salvation.)

(Heb 10:37 For just a little longer and he who is coming will arrive and not delay. )