The way of our Lord Jesus Christ

[christian74]

Where does scripture say this? Does Jesus tell you not to? Yes, in the Sermon on the Mount.

Okay, as for me, I will resort to violence if necessary to defend my family.

For you, sir, you would let things happen without resorting to any violence then?

 

[Dave-L]

Okay, as for me, I will resort to violence if necessary to defend my family.

For you, sir, you would let things happen without resorting to any violence then?

I don't think in violent terms. But I know of peaceful ways to spare my enemies and quell violence.

 

[christian74]

I don't think in violent terms. But I know of peaceful ways to spare my enemies and quell violence.

Okay, so, the situation I described earlier, robbers who are going to violate your wife and your children and kill them afterward, what are your "peaceful" ways to spare the enemies and quell violence?

 

[melita916]

What does protecting your family look like?

Let’s say an intruder breaks in. He ties up the father first because supposedly, the father is the biggest threat. So then, what does the father do while the intruder attacks the rest of the family?

 

[Dave-L]

Okay, so, the situation I described earlier, robbers who are going to violate your wife and your children and kill them afterward, what are your "peaceful" ways to spare the enemies and quell violence?

You need to think like Jesus and then you will find alternatives to violence. If a hammer is your only tool, that's what you will use.

 

[Dave-L]

What does protecting your family look like?

Let’s say an intruder breaks in. He ties up the father first because supposedly, the father is the biggest threat. So then, what does the father do while the intruder attacks the rest of the family?

Paul was beaten and robbed many times. Also left for dead. But never once compromised Jesus' teachings using violence to defend himself. If I give you a reasonable solution, you will never grapple with being willing to suffer and die for Jesus. It will always be conditional. Once you accomplish this mind set, you will see more options.

 

[christian74]

You need to think like Jesus and then you will find alternatives to violence. If a hammer is your only tool, that's what you will use.

Three robbers with gun, sole purpose is to rape and kill, your family's life at stake.
Certainty if you don't take necessary action, not only these robbers will kill you but will rape and kill rest of your family.
You will find alternatives to violence... like what? Hey guys, you guys can kill me but spare my family instead please?
If you can't answer or unwilling to answer, that's fine.

 

[Dave-L]

Three robbers with gun, sole purpose is to rape and kill, your family's life at stake.
Certainty if you don't take necessary action, not only these robbers will kill you but will rape and kill rest of your family.
You will find alternatives to violence... like what? Hey guys, you guys can kill me but spare my family instead please?
If you can't answer or unwilling to answer, that's fine.

Not a sparrow falls to the ground without your Father. And you already deny Christ over hypothetical situations?

 

[OneOfHis]

Okay, as for me, I will resort to violence if necessary to defend my family.

For you, sir, you would let things happen without resorting to any violence then?

That wouldn't be violence but force. It is justice when used to stop evil and defend those in need who are helpless.


You are spot on bro.

 

[melita916]

I’m actually asking for these said solutions so we can see this way of living in practice. Actual actions. Or lack of.

It’s one thing if I don’t defend myself. It’s quite another if I’m seeing someone else being attacked. How do I practice non violence when someone else’s life is is danger?

 

[Dave-L]

That wouldn't be violence but force. It is justice when used to stop evil and defend those in need who are helpless.


You are spot on bro.

Jesus says otherwise.

 

[OneOfHis]

Jesus says otherwise.

No, you impute meaning to His words which He would disagree with.

 

[Dave-L]

No, you impute meaning to His words which He would disagree with.

Read the Sermon on the Mount and follow it. John says any who does not have his teaching does not have God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The swords were necessary for Jesus to be numbered with the transgressors. Between all of them, they had only two. And Jesus rebuked Peter for using his on people.

1. You have become so habituated to misinterpreting the Bible, that you are unable to even interpret that Scripture properly. "He was numbered with the transgressors" by being crucified between two malefactors. Meaning that He was treated as a criminal and given the worst Roman punishment.

2. Jesus rebuked Peter for trying to defend the Lord, when it was He express will to be taken captive and then crucified. God and Christ has pre-determined all that happened including Christ's betrayal by Judas, His being scourged and mocked, and then finally being crucified. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

3. That had nothing to do with His asking His disciples to carry swords for their own self-defense.

 

[Dave-L]

1. You have become so habituated to misinterpreting the Bible, that you are unable to even interpret that Scripture properly. "He was numbered with the transgressors" by being crucified between two malefactors. Meaning that He was treated as a criminal and given the worst Roman punishment.

2. Jesus rebuked Peter for trying to defend the Lord, when it was He express will to be taken captive and then crucified. God and Christ has pre-determined all that happened including Christ's betrayal by Judas, His being scourged and mocked, and then finally being crucified. Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

3. That had nothing to do with His asking His disciples to carry swords for their own self-defense.

You are adding to God's words.

Read the context of the two swords. They were instrumental in having Jesus numbered with the transgressors.

 

[NOV25]

How can we proclame his word to love our enemy, if we carry guns and are ready to kill our enemys? Isn't our work here is to convert our enemys to the path of righteousness, being also ready to get killed in that path?/QUOTE]

I guess it's up to the individual Christian whether or not to carry a gun; I don't but I keep a few in the home and vehicle.
John 18, when Peter cuts the soldiers ear off, apparently the first Christians carried and didn't hesitate to use it either.

 

[Dave-L]

NOV25 said: "I guess it's up to the individual Christian whether or not to carry a gun; I don't but I keep a few in the home and vehicle. John 18, when Peter cuts the soldiers ear off, apparently the first Christians carried and didn't hesitate to use it either."

Jesus rebuked Peter telling us to put away the sword. You are adding to God's word when you say "apparently the first Christians carried and didn't hesitate to use it either." This is a false claim that undermines Christ's and Paul's teachings on violence. No scripture supports it.

 

[Runningman]

I am not aware of a place in the Bible where violence is expressly forbidden. I'm aware of commandments to not murder and to leave vengeance to God, but self-defense doesn't meet the definition of vengeance. Vengeance is defined as: "infliction of injury, harm, humiliation, or the like, on a person by another who has been harmed by that person; violent revenge"

So vengeance is revenge. Stopping someone from hurting someone isn't vengeance. It's called self-defense, a preventative measure to keep us safe. I would suggest that self-defense is Biblical.

The proper use of self-defense has to do with wisdom, understanding, and tact. In Luke 22:36, Jesus tells His remaining disciples, “If you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.” Jesus knew that now was the time when His followers would be threatened, and He upheld their right to self-defense. Even though Peter cut off someone's ear in this chapter and was rebuked by Jesus for it, he was standing in the way of God's will trying to protect Jesus from being arrested. Jesus had already told them numerous times at this point that he will be arrested and crucified for the sins of the world.

In summary, I believe people are allowed to defend themselves but shouldn't do it in every situation. James 3:17 says we can pray for wisdom from heaven to ask God to give us judgement on when to act or not. If at all possible, live in peace with all people.

 

[John146]

How do you love enemies if you cause their death?

How do you love your wife and children if you allow others to harm them?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

In the Bible our Lord Jesus Christ shows us the way of light and the way perfetion, which differend in many ways from of the normal ways of mankind, or the ways of patriotism, or the way of gun protection.


How can we proclame his word to love our enemy, if we carry guns and are ready to kill our enemys? Isn't our work here is to convert our enemys to the path of righteousness, being also ready to get killed in that path? Isn't that the true way of our Lord Jesus Christ, where he is calling a man to turn and walk to receive the eternal life?

I have threads written on this in detail but scripture speaks on 4 areas and the responsibility of each. Individual, Family, Church, and State. If you study this in detail you will understand that being of the Government has responsibilities including using the sword to wage war or promote the law that a individual doesn't have. Self defense has it's own Biblical arguments. Here is a good article about C.S. Lewis and his thoughts on pacifism and war.

https://markchanski.com/2013/05/28/c-s-lewis-on-pacifism-war-the-christian-soldier-2

Evil committed the Holocaust but Good ended it.