Not By Works
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Born again , yes as a new person. The again is being born of God. Being born as a person is the first birth.
John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Born of water still in no way suggests water baptism or any work by the individuals hand who needs to be born again.
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I told you the truth. Now You are starting to argue with me.
I told you I did not want to debate or discuss it.
The RULE I Follow IS WHEN A DIVISIVE so-called Christian, which now seems to be the case, is:
Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
You may consider this your first warning, before I put you on my permanent IGNORE LIST.
Are you a teenager? Your logic sounds like it, and I can recall when I used Teach High School age group in Sunday School, the same logic was in their attitude. NO, it IS GOD's WILL, that we obey the rules and ordinances, LEST WE BRING TO SHAME THE NAME OF THE LORD. The Ordinance for Dog Poop is to be PICKED Up, is because as it seeps into our Ground Water, and has NO BEARING ON GOD's LAWS, and THEREFORE a Born Again Christian WILL OBEY THAT ORDINANCE, and Any Ordinance that does not cause us to violate GOD's Laws.
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What happens if you refuse to pick up dog poop, or just do not CARE ? ? ? A so-called Christian that does not Care to go by RULES, is giving evidence that he has NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.
John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me {Born Again}, you will keep My commands.
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man
for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for
the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put
to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as
bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
{That would be President Donald Trump, if you are an American.}
In the Washed AWAY, question, it is the PENALTY FOR SIN that is Washed AWAY, NOT our Sin Nature itself. WE ARE TO CONFESS EVERY NEW SIN we find in our Walk, as we find it in our lives. And Believe Me, you have a LOT of studying to do on what all God Considers SIN. As Dr. John MacArthur, has said on numerous occasions: "A born again Christian is not SINLESS, but as he matures spiritually, he will sin less, and sin less, and sin less." We have the inherited sin nature from Adam, and we will not get rid of it, until we get the Glorified Body at the resurrection. That sin nature, is the propensity to SIN. And occasionally, it will cause us to STUMBLE. THAT IS WHY 1 John 1:9 WAS WRITTEN.
IF YOU THINK YOU DO NOT SIN, THEN REMEMBER THIS. IT IS FROM THE BOOK OF JAMES.
James 2:10 (HCSB)
10 For whoever keeps the entire law, yet fails in one point, is guilty of ⌊breaking it⌋ all.
Oh my, that makes you as GUILTY for going over the speed limit one mile per hour, as the worst mass murderer on DEATH ROW.
HE TOO IS GUILTY OF BREAK ALL OF GOD'S LAWS. THAT IS WHY CHRIST HAD TO DIE, because NONE of us DESERVES to be SAVED.
And if you are counting, and you are younger than me, then here is another sin that you may want to put on your list to confess.
1 Timothy 5:1 (ESV)
1 Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers,
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So is the standard of an elder the number of posts he has or when he/she joined this forum?
Phrases such as heretics, cultist, get thrown around here with impunity. I will never threaten to ignore anyone.
Who is John MacArthur that I should care what he thinks, respectfully?
I only care about what the Bible says. And Jesus will never ignore me. That’s all I care about!
But I take comfort in this scripture, my friend:
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven.
Be sure that you are standing on 100% pure Bible doctrine before attacking a child of God.
I did not attack you. I was sincerely trying to help a brother out.
I will not ignore you, but I’ll keep you in my prayers.
Phrases such as heretics, cultist, get thrown around here with impunity. I will never threaten to ignore anyone.
Who is John MacArthur that I should care what he thinks, respectfully?
I only care about what the Bible says. And Jesus will never ignore me. That’s all I care about!
But I take comfort in this scripture, my friend:
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven.
Be sure that you are standing on 100% pure Bible doctrine before attacking a child of God.
I did not attack you. I was sincerely trying to help a brother out.
I will not ignore you, but I’ll keep you in my prayers.
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I do read the Bible. As frequently as 3 times a year. My goal since tasting the wonderful word of God over a decade ago was to read it with as much attention as when I first read it. Not leaving my first love.
But can we be honest and acknowledge that later on in that letter that John wrote (1 John) that he says directly that we know that that whosoever is born of God sinneth not?
All the literal translations I checked render those words this way. Only a couple paraphrased translations introduce the notion of a continual sense.
And Paul also said sin not in his letters.
And Jesus is recorded as telling two different people to sin no more.
How can simply showing the verse be quoting it incorrectly?
But can we be honest and acknowledge that later on in that letter that John wrote (1 John) that he says directly that we know that that whosoever is born of God sinneth not?
All the literal translations I checked render those words this way. Only a couple paraphrased translations introduce the notion of a continual sense.
And Paul also said sin not in his letters.
And Jesus is recorded as telling two different people to sin no more.
How can simply showing the verse be quoting it incorrectly?
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How old are you? You are still coming across like you are a teenager.
WOW, you really do not know who Dr. John MacArthur is? You must be very young, or not from this country.
Here is Dr. John MacArthur's stats:
QUOTE:
John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master’s University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry.
After graduating from Talbot Theological Seminary, John came to Grace Community Church in 1969. The emphasis of his pulpit ministry is the careful study and verse-by-verse exposition of the Bible, with special attention devoted to the historical and grammatical background behind each passage. Under John’s leadership, Grace Community Church’s two morning worship services fill the three-thousand-seat auditorium to capacity. Several thousand members participate every week in dozens of fellowship groups and training programs, most led by lay leaders and each dedicated to equipping members for ministry on local, national, and international levels.
In 1985, John became president of The Master’s College (formerly Los Angeles Baptist College; since 2016, The Master’s University). Located in Santa Clarita, California, it is a distinctly Christian, accredited, liberal arts institution offering undergraduate and graduate degree programs. In 1986, John founded The Master’s Seminary, a graduate school dedicated to training men for full-time pastoral and missionary work.
John is also chairman and featured teacher with Grace to You. Founded in 1969, Grace to You is the nonprofit organization responsible for developing, producing, and distributing John’s books, audio resources, and the Grace to You radio and television programs. Grace to You radio airs more than a thousand times daily throughout the English-speaking world, reaching major population centers with biblical truth. It also airs over a thousand times a day in Spanish, reaching twenty-seven countries across Europe and Latin America. Grace to You television airs weekly on DirecTV in the United States, and is available for free on the Internet worldwide. John’s 3,300-plus sermons, spanning more than five decades of ministry, are available for free download on this website.
John has written hundreds of study guides and books, including The Gospel According to Jesus, Our Sufficiency in Christ, Strange Fire, Ashamed of the Gospel, The Murder of Jesus, The Prodigal Son, Twelve Ordinary Men, The Truth War, The Jesus You Can’t Ignore, Slave, One Perfect Life, The Gospel According to Paul, Parables, and One Faithful Life. John’s books have been translated into more than two dozen languages. The MacArthur Study Bible, the cornerstone resource of his ministry, is available in English (NKJ, NAS, and ESV), Spanish, Russian, German, French, Portuguese, Italian, Arabic, and Chinese.
In 2015 The MacArthur New Testament Commentary was completed. In thirty-four volumes, John takes you detail by detail, verse by verse, through the entire New Testament.
END QUOTE.
I am a OSAS GENUINE BELIEVER, who has been discipled though the radio program of GRACE TO YOU, which features Dr. John MacArthurs sermons.
Yes that means I was discipled via radio by Dr. John MacArthur, and other doctrinally sound Bible Teaching Ministries. Yes Dr. John MacArthur is related to Gen. MacArthur. Don't tell me that you do not know who Gen. MacArthur is either? I am an evangelical style of Believer, and DEFINITELY as OSAS BELIEVER, and attended several Bible Teaching Churches in my life. We moved a lot when we were younger from one small town to another, and another, and another. So I have a wide experience in just about every Evangelical style of Churches. ALL had VERY SIMILAR Doctrinal Statements. I was Born Again, after three attempts at suicide, the last week of 1977. Why did it take three attempts? I guess it took me that long to learn to LOOK UP TO JESUS.
After I willingly, out of LOVE for HIM, surrendered to HIM, giving HIM control of my live, the main thing He did with me, is HE opened the door for me to start a Prison Ministry in two of the infamous Supermax prisons in California. I was a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain for Nine years in the first one, and six years in the second one. No I never went to BIBLE COLLEGE, but I was willing to USED by HIM. He opened all the doors, and all I did was step through. I TRUSTED HIM EXCLUSIVELY TO GIVE ME THE ABILITY TO DO WHAT I KNEW I COULD NOT DO ON MY OWN.
Now you seem to not understand the IMPORTANCE of realizing that ENGLISH is a VERY POOR AT BEST LANGUAGE to translate the Bible into. Hebrew and Greek are FAR MORE SPECIFIC LANGUAGES. No, I do not speak Hebrew, and I do not speak Greek. BUT I HAVE LEARNED TO USE ONLINE TOOLS TO GET THOSE SPECIFIC MEANING FROM THE BIBLE. Like in John 14:15, it seems to imply we are PERFECT at KEEPING HIS COMMANDS, however in the Greek, we find that word for KEEP is in the Aorist Tense, which implies no reference to past, present or future Tense; therefore it implies Striving, a Lifestyle dedicated to Keeping HIS Commands as a ACT of LOVE. WE LOSE ALL THAT in the translation, because in English it means perfection, when in GREEK it means Striving to KEEP. WHY? There is no equivalent TENSE in English. Also our Pastor frequently explains the TENSE to us, when it is important to understanding fully what it means by what it says. That is what I mean by a BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH.
It is my turn you ask you a couple of questions.
What Type of Church do you attend? Not asking for the Name of the Church, but the TYPE. Like my church that I attend is a CONSERVATION (not Liberal) EVANGELICAL Non-Denominational Church.
Can you explain in your own words, how a Person is Born Again? Not asking for the Scriptures, but an explanation.
I too went through thoughts of rather being dead than living at one point of my life before knowing the gospel. It’s definitely an evil from Satan. Praise God your still here.
Look, I’m happy for you and wish no ill will towards you. But I believe we should absorb as much Bible as we can and I can be fanatical about Bible reading.
I am in a church that Bible believing (though that doesn’t mean much these days, sadly).
A person gets added to the church after hearing the gospel, believing it, getting Baptized, then continuing in the faith (as demonstrated in the book of Acts many times).
God bless, and I hope we can end on good terms even if we don’t agree.
Look, I’m happy for you and wish no ill will towards you. But I believe we should absorb as much Bible as we can and I can be fanatical about Bible reading.
I am in a church that Bible believing (though that doesn’t mean much these days, sadly).
A person gets added to the church after hearing the gospel, believing it, getting Baptized, then continuing in the faith (as demonstrated in the book of Acts many times).
God bless, and I hope we can end on good terms even if we don’t agree.
YES, I am always willing to just Agree to Disagree.
Are you saying that Christian Water Baptism has anything to do with BORN AGAIN? If so, I totally disagree with that. Christian Water Baptism does not have thing to do with SALVATION. It is only one of the first steps in our Christian Walk. HERE IS THE BAPTISM THAT SAVES!
1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—
whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
The Holy Spirit IMMERSES or Baptizes our Human Spirit into the Spiritual Body of CHRIST, which happens the moment we genuinely Believe.
If your Church does not teach that, I would advise you to get out.
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Well, I can only offer what is in the scripture. Through out the book of acts water baptism seems to be done for believers. And I know that John the Baptist mentioned the baptism of the Holy Spirit (with no physical water). But humility requires me to yield to the scriptural example set forth in the book of Acts.
Like I said before the Christian Water Baptism is important as one of the first steps in the Christian Walk. But SALVATION HAPPENS WAY BEFORE THAT, and in fact it happens BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
Now the Bible does say that eight People were saved by water:
1 Peter 3:20 (NIV)
20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
The Christian Water Baptism has NEVER been part of SALVATION.
It has only been a part of our walk of obedience, out of LOVE for HIM.
Another question: Are you a Mormon?
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That same author said in the first chapter of the same letter that if we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us,
if your claiming you are sinless, well the Bible says you are decieved and their is no truth in you
good luck trying to talk about them Bible to anyone
if your claiming you are sinless, well the Bible says you are decieved and their is no truth in you
good luck trying to talk about them Bible to anyone
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The Mormons, along with every other sect of Christianity (I would run out of space to list them all here), read their Bibles WITH the leaven of their leader’s teaching. That’s why when they read the Bible it has no effect on them. Their leaders have made the word of God of none effect to them. I am not a Mormon. Neither do I follow man’s teaching on the things of God. I follow the scriptures alone.
I’m not sure why there’s a need to interrogate me. If you know the Bible you should know wether what I say is of God or not. I don’t need to know what country you’re from, or what sect you’re with to know wether or not you’re biblically sound.
Well the Bible says this as well:
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).
Since you are saying that we still sin, contradicting this scripture, this must mean you are not born of God and Satan touches you at his will. Further more you are not keeping yourself because you haven’t been properly indoctrinated to do so.
I’m not sure why there’s a need to interrogate me. If you know the Bible you should know wether what I say is of God or not. I don’t need to know what country you’re from, or what sect you’re with to know wether or not you’re biblically sound.
Well the Bible says this as well:
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).
Since you are saying that we still sin, contradicting this scripture, this must mean you are not born of God and Satan touches you at his will. Further more you are not keeping yourself because you haven’t been properly indoctrinated to do so.
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