Sorry but there was no way for me to know that while we were having a one on one conversation that you would suddenly start talking to other folks who were not taking part in a conversation between you and I. After all the word "YOU" as in "You argue the resurrection was on a Sunday" is after all singular. Isn't it???
Soul Sleeping? What does scripture say happens to us when we die.
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Go back and read the post.
It was addressed to Deade and is based on other posts I have made in regards to his heretical views.
And he told me that he got his views from Armstrongism, at least in part.
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...to-us-when-we-die.190467/page-13#post-4190297
And, quit making accusations about Satan. You are one of the most dense individuals I have ever encountered.
Again, you are one of the most dense individuals I have encountered.
If a house is remodeled, it is still the same house. It has been changed in terms of its' original composition, but it is still the same house.
In regards to the bodily resurrection, this is CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE which has solid biblical support.
I could post any number of well-reasoned articles with extensive Scriptural support, and you would not accept it, though.
I have already done this, for those who want to read them.
As I have said, Paul used the example of the seed and the plant. It's very plain.
And what is the "it" you are referring to? The "it" is the body...."it" is a natural body, then it is raised a spiritual body, according to Paul. The "it" is the body of the believer. Therefore there is continuity between the "it" before the resurrection, and the "it" after the resurrection.
It really isn't hard to understand this. But, for some reason, you simply cannot because you are too dense.
You can't even follow who is posting to who...for instance, you thought I was posting to you, when in fact I was posting to Deade, and quoted his post in my post.
Do you need new eyeglasses?
If a house is remodeled, it is still the same house. It has been changed in terms of its' original composition, but it is still the same house.
In regards to the bodily resurrection, this is CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE which has solid biblical support.
I could post any number of well-reasoned articles with extensive Scriptural support, and you would not accept it, though.
I have already done this, for those who want to read them.
As I have said, Paul used the example of the seed and the plant. It's very plain.
And what is the "it" you are referring to? The "it" is the body...."it" is a natural body, then it is raised a spiritual body, according to Paul. The "it" is the body of the believer. Therefore there is continuity between the "it" before the resurrection, and the "it" after the resurrection.
It really isn't hard to understand this. But, for some reason, you simply cannot because you are too dense.
You can't even follow who is posting to who...for instance, you thought I was posting to you, when in fact I was posting to Deade, and quoted his post in my post.
Do you need new eyeglasses?
Folks, simply realize that this guy can't even understand the concept that there is continuity between the pre-resurrection body, and the post-resurrection body.
I have given him more than one example, and more than one Scriptural proof.
Paul used the analogy of the seed and the plant. Another analogy would be an extensive remodeling of a home. The home is still the same home, at the same address, but it has been changed in terms of its previous design.
So, there is continuity between the pre-resurrection body, and the resurrected body in some senses. I am not claiming the resurrection body is still flesh and blood. In fact, it has been changed from perishable to imperishable, and from corruptible to incorruptible. But, it is still the same body.
The same thing is true with regards to the creation and the new creation.
God redeems the creation. He doesn't wipe it totally out and start over. His plan is one of redemption.
Additionally, in our salvation, the believer is in some senses a new creation, but he still has the same physical body. There is continuity between the pre-conversion man, and the post-conversion man. The believer doesn't cease to be the same person, in other words.
I am going to address this guy bluntly on this issue, though, because I think he has some faulty theology he is trying to convince people concerning here. I suspect part of it is hyperdispensationalism. I don't know know what other wonky theology he holds.
Again, i suggest that folks read Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 15. Ask yourself whether the explanations given by others on this thread are reasonable, or if his explanations are reasonable. Also, realize that you could find any number of articles online teaching the continuity between Jesus' body before the resurrection, and after the resurrection. In fact, that's the entire reason that his resurrection body proved that he rose from the grave.
If anyone claims that the body he presented was a mere temporary fabrication, then they are denying the bodily resurrection of Christ, and this is a core Christian doctrine. Jesus is both glorified man and God.
I have given him more than one example, and more than one Scriptural proof.
Paul used the analogy of the seed and the plant. Another analogy would be an extensive remodeling of a home. The home is still the same home, at the same address, but it has been changed in terms of its previous design.
So, there is continuity between the pre-resurrection body, and the resurrected body in some senses. I am not claiming the resurrection body is still flesh and blood. In fact, it has been changed from perishable to imperishable, and from corruptible to incorruptible. But, it is still the same body.
The same thing is true with regards to the creation and the new creation.
God redeems the creation. He doesn't wipe it totally out and start over. His plan is one of redemption.
Additionally, in our salvation, the believer is in some senses a new creation, but he still has the same physical body. There is continuity between the pre-conversion man, and the post-conversion man. The believer doesn't cease to be the same person, in other words.
I am going to address this guy bluntly on this issue, though, because I think he has some faulty theology he is trying to convince people concerning here. I suspect part of it is hyperdispensationalism. I don't know know what other wonky theology he holds.
Again, i suggest that folks read Romans 8 and 1 Corinthians 15. Ask yourself whether the explanations given by others on this thread are reasonable, or if his explanations are reasonable. Also, realize that you could find any number of articles online teaching the continuity between Jesus' body before the resurrection, and after the resurrection. In fact, that's the entire reason that his resurrection body proved that he rose from the grave.
If anyone claims that the body he presented was a mere temporary fabrication, then they are denying the bodily resurrection of Christ, and this is a core Christian doctrine. Jesus is both glorified man and God.
A temporal creation as the Son of man Jesus was a must as a promised outward demonstration.. It was in order to do what the letter of the law "death" could not do . Create a new spirit. God is not a man as us.
The resurrected body proved that the Spirit of Christ, a living sacrifice dwelt in the body of the Son of man. Three times in the garden it was demonstrated. The Son suffering cries out for spiritual strengthen working with the father to complete the one time promised demonstration.
The resurrected body proved that the Spirit of Christ, a living sacrifice dwelt in the body of the Son of man. Three times in the garden it was demonstrated. The Son suffering cries out for spiritual strengthen working with the father to complete the one time promised demonstration.
LOL HAHA Man you sure are frustrated. No I am not dence. LOL I am however very stubborn. I have already told you that I am willing to agree to disagree but you just keep trying to convince me that I am wrong without showing any scripture that proves I am wrong. You have an opinion but then again everybody has an opinion. You seem to be looking very hard for any kind of reason why I must have some how fallen under the spell of the groups or corrupted denomination like Seventh Day Adventist or other off the wall teachings. You have asked me if I am from another country and suggested that Mr. Bullinger has some how influenced me.
I have challenged you to come up with some scriptures so I could dissect them to see if you or I are misinterpreting them wrong but you have failed to come up with any scriptures for me to dissect. But you keep coming up with a bunch of commentary which doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.
Sorry if I made a mistake about a post you meant for someone else. I make mistakes in conversations just like you have in our conversation and we all know that Christ alone is perfect.
I think your having a really hard time because someone has disagreed with you and has proven with scripture why I believe what I believe is correct. I don't read commentaries or other peoples opinions to learn about the Word of God. All I need are the Word of God and Revelation from God.
I have had some amazing experiences with God. I had my first experience with alcohol at the age of 4 and in 1996 I was a stone cold drunk and after a dream one night I woke up absolutely delivered from alcoholism. God has shown me His light in the middle of a church service once and it had these beams of light coming out of the center of it that came to a point. I couldn't see the color of the cloths of the people of the color of their skin, they were all this deep black silhouettes I couldn't see the colors of the walls or seats but the walls were a shade or two lighter then the people which is why I could see their black silhouettes. I couldn't even see the lights that were on for the service because nothing out shined the Light of God. We wouldn't even be able to see the moon or the sun if not for the light of God. Because with out the light of God we would see nothing but darkness. In a cave you can touch your hand to your nose and you still can't see your hand. That is what it would be like without the light of God.
God came and woke me up one night because He wanted me to worship and praise Him. Six years after He delivered me from drinking He delivered me from smoking after 35 years.
It was God who put this unquenchable desire to read, study and research the bible. It was the unction of God that made me spend 8 years on the book of Revelation, the History, events and the doctrinal beliefs of the early church for the first 300+ years and it was the unction of God that gave me the drive to study and research the Quran and Islam. I have never been influenced by any kind of doctrinal teaching or school of thought by any man or men because that is the way God wanted me to learn.
No one can get me to re-think any of my positions of any doctrinal belief except by showing me I am in error with scripture.
I started in the construction field in 1973 after I got out of the service. You are right about the House remodeling. The problem is that we are not talking about a house. We are talking about a transformation from a natural body to a spiritual body and they do not have the same composition. The natural body of Christ was mortal and made of flesh and blood and corruptible though God saw fit not to allow the body of Christ to suffer corruption just as scripture says. After Christ was raised from the grave He was immortal could teleport Himself from point A to point B, walk through walls, eat fish and change His appearance and disguise Himself from His own disciples.
That was the body He ascended into heaven with, not a corruptible body of flesh and blood.
Sorry if you don't care about any of my testimony. That is on you. But perhaps you might understand why I am so stubborn about my beliefs. God knew my mind had never been corrupted by the doctrines of men before He gave me the unquenchable desire to study and research His Word.
I have challenged you to come up with some scriptures so I could dissect them to see if you or I are misinterpreting them wrong but you have failed to come up with any scriptures for me to dissect. But you keep coming up with a bunch of commentary which doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.
Sorry if I made a mistake about a post you meant for someone else. I make mistakes in conversations just like you have in our conversation and we all know that Christ alone is perfect.
I think your having a really hard time because someone has disagreed with you and has proven with scripture why I believe what I believe is correct. I don't read commentaries or other peoples opinions to learn about the Word of God. All I need are the Word of God and Revelation from God.
I have had some amazing experiences with God. I had my first experience with alcohol at the age of 4 and in 1996 I was a stone cold drunk and after a dream one night I woke up absolutely delivered from alcoholism. God has shown me His light in the middle of a church service once and it had these beams of light coming out of the center of it that came to a point. I couldn't see the color of the cloths of the people of the color of their skin, they were all this deep black silhouettes I couldn't see the colors of the walls or seats but the walls were a shade or two lighter then the people which is why I could see their black silhouettes. I couldn't even see the lights that were on for the service because nothing out shined the Light of God. We wouldn't even be able to see the moon or the sun if not for the light of God. Because with out the light of God we would see nothing but darkness. In a cave you can touch your hand to your nose and you still can't see your hand. That is what it would be like without the light of God.
God came and woke me up one night because He wanted me to worship and praise Him. Six years after He delivered me from drinking He delivered me from smoking after 35 years.
It was God who put this unquenchable desire to read, study and research the bible. It was the unction of God that made me spend 8 years on the book of Revelation, the History, events and the doctrinal beliefs of the early church for the first 300+ years and it was the unction of God that gave me the drive to study and research the Quran and Islam. I have never been influenced by any kind of doctrinal teaching or school of thought by any man or men because that is the way God wanted me to learn.
No one can get me to re-think any of my positions of any doctrinal belief except by showing me I am in error with scripture.
I started in the construction field in 1973 after I got out of the service. You are right about the House remodeling. The problem is that we are not talking about a house. We are talking about a transformation from a natural body to a spiritual body and they do not have the same composition. The natural body of Christ was mortal and made of flesh and blood and corruptible though God saw fit not to allow the body of Christ to suffer corruption just as scripture says. After Christ was raised from the grave He was immortal could teleport Himself from point A to point B, walk through walls, eat fish and change His appearance and disguise Himself from His own disciples.
That was the body He ascended into heaven with, not a corruptible body of flesh and blood.
Sorry if you don't care about any of my testimony. That is on you. But perhaps you might understand why I am so stubborn about my beliefs. God knew my mind had never been corrupted by the doctrines of men before He gave me the unquenchable desire to study and research His Word.
Firstly, I have already presented the Scriptures and reasoning.
Secondly, you can make all the claims you want, but you already said that you respect a certain study bible by Bullinger called "Companion Bible". Bullinger believed some of the same unusual teachings including soul sleep. He also believed annihilationism.
I have met so many people who claim they got none of their understanding of the Bible from others, and they derived their understanding solely from reading the Bible themselves. They are simply blowhards. For one thing, there is nothing wrong with learning from brothers in Christ with a sound understanding of the Bible. And, also, this sort of claim simply demonstrates that the person is still struggling with a strong sense of autonomy, which doesn't understand that Christianity is a community. He very well could be some isolationist hermit professor of Christianity who doesn't even have a church home.
Thirdly, I tend to think such experiences are fabrications of the person's mind. I have no clue what was going on with you in particular, though. If I was your pastor, I would ask questions about your mental health, etcetera. I do not deny that on rare occasions God could use a vision to reach someone, but my guess is that almost all such experiences are either fabrications or the result of mental illness.
Fourthly, I have already explained that I don't think the pre-resurrection body is an unchanged, identical body with the resurrection body. But, it is the same body. The same body is resurrected from the grave, and changed or glorified. It is made to be like Christ's glorified body. There is continuity between the pre-resurrection body and the resurrection body, much like there is continuity between a seed and the plant that grows from it. There is nothing that I have said which is inconsistent with this. You seem to be attempting to create a straw-man from my position and to argue against it.
Fifthly, my understanding of the bodily resurrection is, in fact, biblical and it is a position that no sound Christian theologian would find fault with. In fact, the bodily resurrection is a core doctrine of Christianity.
Sixthly, you continue to misrepresent my position on this matter. Somehow you are claiming that I have said the resurrection body is mortal and corruptible. This is NOT what I have said. You seem unable to understand that the resurrection body can be the same body, only changed in terms of composition and characteristics. In fact, it is NOT corruptible and it is NOT mortal, and those are some of the changes of characteristics that relate to glorification. So, you are basically just creating strawmen of my position, and arguing against it, not the position itself.
There is, however, continuity between the pre-resurrection body and the resurrection body. It is the pre-resurrection body that is raised and glorified. In fact, that's what resurrection means. It isn't a different body, but it has been resurrected and glorified. The "it" is the body, and this 'it" is raised and this "it" is glorified. It's still the same "it" but "it" has been changed.
I suppose almost everyone here already understands this, and I'm simply beating a dead horse to continue on with this discussion.
Secondly, you can make all the claims you want, but you already said that you respect a certain study bible by Bullinger called "Companion Bible". Bullinger believed some of the same unusual teachings including soul sleep. He also believed annihilationism.
I have met so many people who claim they got none of their understanding of the Bible from others, and they derived their understanding solely from reading the Bible themselves. They are simply blowhards. For one thing, there is nothing wrong with learning from brothers in Christ with a sound understanding of the Bible. And, also, this sort of claim simply demonstrates that the person is still struggling with a strong sense of autonomy, which doesn't understand that Christianity is a community. He very well could be some isolationist hermit professor of Christianity who doesn't even have a church home.
Thirdly, I tend to think such experiences are fabrications of the person's mind. I have no clue what was going on with you in particular, though. If I was your pastor, I would ask questions about your mental health, etcetera. I do not deny that on rare occasions God could use a vision to reach someone, but my guess is that almost all such experiences are either fabrications or the result of mental illness.
Fourthly, I have already explained that I don't think the pre-resurrection body is an unchanged, identical body with the resurrection body. But, it is the same body. The same body is resurrected from the grave, and changed or glorified. It is made to be like Christ's glorified body. There is continuity between the pre-resurrection body and the resurrection body, much like there is continuity between a seed and the plant that grows from it. There is nothing that I have said which is inconsistent with this. You seem to be attempting to create a straw-man from my position and to argue against it.
Fifthly, my understanding of the bodily resurrection is, in fact, biblical and it is a position that no sound Christian theologian would find fault with. In fact, the bodily resurrection is a core doctrine of Christianity.
Sixthly, you continue to misrepresent my position on this matter. Somehow you are claiming that I have said the resurrection body is mortal and corruptible. This is NOT what I have said. You seem unable to understand that the resurrection body can be the same body, only changed in terms of composition and characteristics. In fact, it is NOT corruptible and it is NOT mortal, and those are some of the changes of characteristics that relate to glorification. So, you are basically just creating strawmen of my position, and arguing against it, not the position itself.
There is, however, continuity between the pre-resurrection body and the resurrection body. It is the pre-resurrection body that is raised and glorified. In fact, that's what resurrection means. It isn't a different body, but it has been resurrected and glorified. The "it" is the body, and this 'it" is raised and this "it" is glorified. It's still the same "it" but "it" has been changed.
I suppose almost everyone here already understands this, and I'm simply beating a dead horse to continue on with this discussion.