What is the Price of Wisdom?

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posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#1
Jul 31, 2013
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#1
Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom,
seeing he hath no heart to it?
(Proverbs 17:16 KJV)
​
italicized words are not part of the Hebrew; they are added by the translators in attempt to clarify awkward literal translation.
so let's remove them:

Wherefore a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom,​
seeing no heart?​
(Proverbs 17:16 KJV)
​
now we're closer to being literal:

Why is this -- a price in the hand of a fool to buy wisdom,
and a heart there is none?
(Proverbs 17:16 YLT)

​
this is posing a question: why does a fool have what is necessary to get wisdom, yet have no heart?
this begs a question, that i'd like to get your insight on -- what is the cost of wisdom?

seems to me, this is saying fools have it, but for lack of heart, it is not 'spent' i.e. wisdom isn't acquired even though they have ability.
so what is the price?
something even a fool has ((every fool?)) -- something that without heart, isn't profitable.
what is it?
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#3
May 17, 2013
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#3
It is saying that wisdom cannot be purchased but must be attained from a heart that desires to know wisdom. Get knowledge, get understanding and wisdom will follow.

Pr 4:1 ¶ Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
3 For I was my father’s son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.
4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

It is an admonition to study Gods word and to take it into the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#4
Jul 31, 2013
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#4
notuptome said:
It is saying that wisdom cannot be purchased but must be attained from a heart that desires to know wisdom. Get knowledge, get understanding and wisdom will follow.

Pr 4:1 ¶ Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
3 For I was my father’s son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.
4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

It is an admonition to study Gods word and to take it into the heart.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...
I don't think anywhere it is ever suggested that wisdom can be bought with money, and even though many translations put the word money in 17:16, it's not present in the text. The word is 'cost' which isn't necessarily money.

Certainly we ought to seek wisdom, to seek knowledge and with all our getting, get understanding - - but that's not what this verse is saying. It's not an admonition, it's not declarative, it's not persuasive, it's not a command. It's a question.
The question presupposes that whatever the 'cost' of wisdom is, a fool has the ability to 'pay' it - but the question asked says a fool 'does not have a heart' - so there is the clear implication that having the wherewithal to 'pay' is not sufficient on its own to actually procure wisdom; knowledge and understanding on their own do not necessarily result in gaining wisdom, not in and of themselves. Something may lack: the heart.

So a fool has what is necessary for wisdom, the price. But a fool does not spend it on wisdom.

What is that price, is what I'm asking?
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#5
Jul 31, 2013
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#5
Who can get wisdom?
Only the wise?
Seems hopeless, if that's the case - I don't know anyone who seeks wisdom because they already have it, rather, because they know that they lack it.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#6
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
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#6
I was viewing that scripture as saying that no heart is the reason for no wisdom.


Not that the fool does not have a heart. He just doesn't have the heart given by God that can acquire Godly Wisdom.


What is the price or the cost of this wisdom? It is both free and priceless. It costs nothing but everything must be given in order to get it.

Like a cup of water. You have to throw out the bad water in order to fill it with good water.

And you might as well scrub out the cup and make it clean before you put the good water in....
 
walknlight

walknlight

Member
#7
Nov 17, 2017
595
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#7
posthuman said:
​
so what is the price?
something even a fool has ((every fool?)) -- something that without heart, isn't profitable.
what is it?
Click to expand...
Hi!
I have come to learn that knowledge and wisdom are not synonymous.

With wisdom you lose the world and the worldy things....and gain Christ.

Having knowledge doesn't necessarily make one wise.

That's the price

God Bless....
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#8
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#8
posthuman said:
I don't think anywhere it is ever suggested that wisdom can be bought with money, and even though many translations put the word money in 17:16, it's not present in the text. The word is 'cost' which isn't necessarily money.

Certainly we ought to seek wisdom, to seek knowledge and with all our getting, get understanding - - but that's not what this verse is saying. It's not an admonition, it's not declarative, it's not persuasive, it's not a command. It's a question.
The question presupposes that whatever the 'cost' of wisdom is, a fool has the ability to 'pay' it - but the question asked says a fool 'does not have a heart' - so there is the clear implication that having the wherewithal to 'pay' is not sufficient on its own to actually procure wisdom; knowledge and understanding on their own do not necessarily result in gaining wisdom, not in and of themselves. Something may lack: the heart.

So a fool has what is necessary for wisdom, the price. But a fool does not spend it on wisdom.

What is that price, is what I'm asking?
Click to expand...
It is an interesting question you raise about the "heart" in Proverbs 17:16. Some other Bible versions use other words for heart:

(ESV) Pro. 17:16 "Why should a fool have money in his hand to buy wisdom when he has no sense?" Ah, no sense. A little clearer.

While the RV and ASV use "understanding" for heart:

(ASV) Pro. 17:16 "Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to buy wisdom, Seeing he hath no understanding?"

When I meditate about it, I ask myself what does a fool lack, to learn and do good? Most fools think they already know everything, therefore they can learn nothing. Did you ever try to reprove a fool? They are not open to reproof.

There are a couple of Proverbs that seem to contradict each other until you meditate about them:

Pro. 26:4 "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him." This is telling us not to give a meaningful answer to a fool because he won't be open to the useful response.

Pro. 26:5 "Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit." On the other hand, we can give a silly response to a silly question. Yes, it is even encouraged.
 
walknlight

walknlight

Member
#9
Nov 17, 2017
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#9
1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Cor 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Cor 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
--------
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Its all about God and His Christ...

God Bless...
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
#10
Feb 1, 2020
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#10
I have tracked down the quote I paraphrased earlier. The cost of wisdom if you want it:

Ecclesiastes 1:18

18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

Though of course anyone that is really wise probably doesn't need the Bible quote for this. It is just manifestly obvious that the wiser you become the more sorrowful you will be because you will start to see just how evil the world and the multitude of people in it are. Fools don't really give any thought to anything other than their own pleasure and their feelings, they are ruled by their emotions and their carnal pleasures.

Where is the heart of the wise and where is the heart of the fools?

Ecclesiastes 7:4

4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning; but the heart of fools is in the house of mirth.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#11
May 17, 2013
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#11
posthuman said:
So a fool has what is necessary for wisdom, the price. But a fool does not spend it on wisdom.

What is that price, is what I'm asking?
Click to expand...
There is no price for the Lord giveth liberally all who ask. Wisdom is of the Lord. The fool has said in his heart no God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
JeremiahsCup

JeremiahsCup

Banned
#13
Feb 1, 2020
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#13
Reading through the great chapter of Proverbs 17 and re-reading this Op it occurs to me you're just thrown off by the wording of this proverb. It is essentially asking; Why do the fools try to buy wisdom when they don't have the heart for it?

The most immediate thought that crosses my mind on this is how there is the great living stereotypical example of the stupid college kids, the fratboys and the sluts. Why do they take out massive amounts of debts, even thousands of dollars, trying to buy wisdom and knowledge (though it is arguable just what wisdom these institutions have to sell) seeing that they have not the heart for it and will party it all away? Just like the description of the heart of fools and the hearts of the wise in Ecclesiastes, the foolish ones will almost certainly be drinking from Babylon's debauched cup in many ways literally, spiritually, metaphorically, you name it.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#14
Jul 31, 2013
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#14
notuptome said:
There is no price for the Lord giveth liberally all who ask. Wisdom is of the Lord. The fool has said in his heart no God.
Click to expand...
But there is a price, this verse says so.
James says anyone who lacks wisdom, let them ask - and then he goes on to say that unless one asks with faith they should not expect to receive.
So there are two things: you've got to ask, implying you've got to know you have need and lack. And you've got to have faith, trusting the one you ask.

Solomon says the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and he also says the fear of the LORD is to hate evil. Even a fool knows God exists - they have that prerequisite, because 'all are without excuse' - and a fool certainly has evil in his hand. But does a fool have a heart to respect God? Does a fool have a heart bent toward evil or bent away from it?

:unsure:
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#16
Jul 31, 2013
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#16
JeremiahsCup said:
Where is the heart of the wise and where is the heart of the fools?
Click to expand...

Sorrow is better than laughter, ​
for by a sad countenance the heart is made better.
(Ecclesiastes 7:3) ​
​
this explains the mention of the heart in Proverbs 17:16

thank you :)
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

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#18
Sep 4, 2013
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#18
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#19
Jul 31, 2013
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#19
p_rehbein said:
Proverbs, Chapter 9:

9Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Job, Chapter 28:

28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Click to expand...


The fear of the LORD is to hate evil;
pride and arrogance and the evil way
and the perverse mouth I hate.
(Proverbs 8:13)
​
transitive property holds?
to hate evil = the beginning of wisdom?

so requisite to getting wisdom ((i.e. "the price")) includes:
  • having evil
  • recognizing it as such

?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#20
Jul 18, 2017
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#20
posthuman said:
this is posing a question: why does a fool have what is necessary to get wisdom, yet have no heart?
Click to expand...
Because he is a fool. "The fool has said in his heart: There is no God".
this begs a question, that i'd like to get your insight on -- what is the cost of wisdom?
Click to expand...
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom" so that is the cost of wisdom.
 
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