Catholicism vs Protestantism

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EleventhHour

Guest
But just because a follower committed evil doesn't make the religion evil.
Suffice it to say .. the problems and the evil in the Roman Catholic Church has been and is systemic on both levels, dogma and leaders.
Parishioners/lay people, many priest and nuns are blind adherents
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
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Let's be careful of our attitude. Yes, there are priests that have abused children. But there are also preachers that have done the same. A preacher I use to sit under, his son became a preacher also. I found out that he was up on charges for messing with young girls. Don't know what ever came of it. Another pastor I sat under, he slept with his worship leader and is now living with her leaving his wife of more than 20yrs and children behind for his "new" children and woman. So let's not act like there is not sin in the camp. While there are things Catholics teach that are false doctrine, there are things they have right. And I don't believe Catholics as a whole don't know God or are on their way to hell. I know many very sincere Catholics that are just as upset over what some priests have done as we are. Many have left the church because of it. So let's be fair and not hammer our brothers and sisters in the Lord. Fine to point out and discuss errors. But let's not attack one another. It's unbecoming.
Yes, but does whatever denomination you're talking about approve of it , hide it and then re-assign them ? Does the denomination you're talking about take up money for the poor called '' Peters pence'' then fund and lose millions of dollars making a movie about Elton john with explicit homo scenes .. Does your denomination pay millions in hush money for abused boys and victim who they can no longer get away with calling the victims liars ? Does the bible warn us ''they would forbid marriage'' Do you not know what the qualifications in 1 Tim 3 are in the first place ? and if these good sincere Catholics who hate it refuse to come out from it has Jesus made them free or are they afraid their pervert pope will call them heretic and block them from heaven lol .. I had a preacher who I'd found out he'd been married 3 times I told him when I found out I asked him and he was saying but, but, but, .. It was nothing personal at all but I left .. No wonder he couldn't preach the whole bible .. I even went and personally talked to my sons teachers if they were men to check them out and let them know I kept a close eye guarding on my sons .
 
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Bede

Guest
So you suggest us to forgive catholic for their wrong doing by pray to Mary?

Their not wrong us. Yes we have to love them, but Nothing to do with our forgiveness.

We forgive If their harm us or do some thing bad to us.

But pray to Mary is between them and God.

All we can do is tell them It is not biblical and up to them wether they believe or not.

To tell the truth is not hatred, It is love.

But in my oppinion their teaching is not Christian teaching. Not because I hate them but because I love them and want them to accept Jesus teaching No edit.
Why is it wrong to pray to Mary?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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There is no missing commandments.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Article 1

THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
It is written: "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."


Under the section:- IV. "You Shall Not Make For Yourself a Graven Image . . ." there are four paragraphs (2129 – 2132) discussing this part of the commandment

Nothing is missing
I'm curious: why do the Catholics put the commandments into a catechism instead of just having the students read the Bible directly?
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
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You say the Bible explains one fate for the unbelievers and yet the same Bible tells me of another fate. You believe they are living forever in flames? Is that death?

Everyone dies the first death. Those that do not have the Holy Spirit in this life have no chance of salvation. Everyone has the promise of a future resurrection (Rev. 20:5). What God does with them at that time mainstream Christianity has completely missed the mark.

I don't hold to your five solas or any other Protestant doctrine. Yes, salvation is faith through grace alone only if you have the right Holy Spirit. We know there is a counterfeit, right?
Interesting. What is another fate for a unbeliever who doesn't put their faith in Christ?

You are a Annihilationist so I understand why you are thinking that. Maybe a mix of Universalism too.

If you dont hold to the 5 solas then can you explain why?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
On the idea of evil. It is true that the institution has historically committed much evil in the world. Just curious do you judge that from the actions of historical figures or their religious texts?

For example you will hear the argument that Christians have committed much evil in the world. But we stop and ask do we judge the religion based on the actions of individuals or by what the religion teaches?

Obviously we judge the religion based on what it teaches because anyone could commit evil or fall from what the Bible says. But just because a follower committed evil doesn't make the religion evil.

Another example. You often hear Islam is the religion of peace. Well much evil is committed in its name but what does their so claimed holy texts say? Of course most of us know that in the Quran, Hadiths, and the Seerah they do record to commit jihad on unbelievers especially Jews and Christians.
The Catholic Church had the wrong doctrine from their very inception. It started when Constantine decided to Christianize the Roman Empire after his vision "In hoc signo vinces." They have done a lot of bad trying to win the world for Christ.

Other than their well meaning but errant doctrine, they are no more or less evil than the rest of us. We all have a capacity for evil. Whenever Catholics take a stand against the same things I stand against, I am with them. We can view all Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ. Our place is to not judge those outside our own congregations.

That said, I could not worship with Catholics because of their open idolatry. But I can't get along with many Protestant denominations either. We can all love each other and not judge, usually from a distance.

Oh, and you question about the five solas or any other Protestant dogma is that it is all predicated on the Protestant Movement. Instead of breaking away from the RCC, they should have started from scratch. 6-old-thumbsup.gif
 
Mar 28, 2016
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What is the Catholic lense?
The Catholic lens is another written authority other than all things written in the law and the prophet .Its always a matter of faith how do we hear God not seen what are the tools he has given us?

A simply comparison of their written law of the fathers (private interpretation or oral tradition) their "lens" . compared to the interpretation of God as his law .His lens. The word of God reveals the idea that they believe they could serve two teaching Master as one DEVINE authority . Unaware of the hidden danger of serving two teaching masters . . . . thie things of God the eternal not seen and those of men the temporal

Thou shall not surely die

The Catholic lens. . . . Catechism of the Catholic Church (book of law) verse #80 "

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together, and communicate one with the other. For both of them, flowing out from the same divine well-spring, come together in some fashion to form one thing, and move towards the same goal."

Interestingly in the above order they put the word of God (Sacred Scripture) second and their Sacred Oral Tradition law first . . The pew sitters who must seek the approval of the fathers. The gospel is needed its a very dark place with no light.

Isaiah 8:19-21 King James Version (KJV) And when they shall say unto you, Seek (necromancy patron saints) unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
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There is no missing commandments.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
Article 1

THE FIRST COMMANDMENT

I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them or serve them.
It is written: "You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve."


Under the section:- IV. "You Shall Not Make For Yourself a Graven Image . . ." there are four paragraphs (2129 – 2132) discussing this part of the commandment

Nothing is missing
Did you read the article? Of course the Catholic Church does not delete the prohibition, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image" from the Catholic Bible versions or the major catechisms. *But the prohibition of image worship is left out, and effectively hidden, in the abbreviated lists of the 10 commandments commonly used to teach children. Many of them, including myself, grow up without ever been told that such a prohibition is part of God’s law. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a83.htm

I attended Catholic school from 4th grade - 8th grade and had the same experience. I had a set of the 10 Commandments given to me (hand held size) while attending Catholic school and it read as the set on the right.

 
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Bede

Guest
I'm curious: why do the Catholics put the commandments into a catechism instead of just having the students read the Bible directly?
There is nothing wrong with reading the Bible. It is an excellent thing to do.
But what you are suggesting is that everyone invents their own religion from the Bible. That is why you get 30,000 different Protestant denominations and one pastor churches teaching wildly conflicting doctrines.

Neither Jesus, nor the apostles handed out Bibles and said read that and work it all out from that. Jesus told the apostles “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation" (Mk 16:15). They preached the truths that had been handed down to them.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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There is nothing wrong with reading the Bible. It is an excellent thing to do.
But what you are suggesting is that everyone invents their own religion from the Bible. That is why you get 30,000 different Protestant denominations and one pastor churches teaching wildly conflicting doctrines.

Neither Jesus, nor the apostles handed out Bibles and said read that and work it all out from that. Jesus told the apostles “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation" (Mk 16:15). They preached the truths that had been handed down to them.
The gospel that is to be preached is the gospel that has Christ at its center. The gospel the catholic church preaches has the church at the center. One is a gospel of grace and the other a gospel of works. One leads to eternal life the other to eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
B

Bede

Guest
Did you read the article? Of course the Catholic Church does not delete the prohibition, "You shall not make for yourself a carved image" from the Catholic Bible versions or the major catechisms. *But the prohibition of image worship is left out, and effectively hidden, in the abbreviated lists of the 10 commandments commonly used to teach children. Many of them, including myself, grow up without ever been told that such a prohibition is part of God’s law. - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a83.htm

I attended Catholic school from 4th grade - 8th grade and had the same experience. I had a set of the 10 Commandments given to me (hand held size) while attending Catholic school and it read as the set on the right.

What you have on the right is a catechetical summary of the commandment.

The left hand side is also a catechetical summary.
Does it list everything in Ex 20:1-17? No it doesn't.
Does it tell you not to covet your neighbors wife? No it doesn't.

When I was at school ( long time ago) every child was given what was known as the "penny catechism". I have a reprint (lost the original) and it contains the full text of Ex 20:4-5. The Catholic Church has hidden nothing.
 
B

Bede

Guest
The gospel that is to be preached is the gospel that has Christ at its center. The gospel the catholic church preaches has the church at the center. One is a gospel of grace and the other a gospel of works. One leads to eternal life the other to eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
You are wrong.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
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There is nothing wrong with reading the Bible. It is an excellent thing to do.
But what you are suggesting is that everyone invents their own religion from the Bible. That is why you get 30,000 different Protestant denominations and one pastor churches teaching wildly conflicting doctrines.

Neither Jesus, nor the apostles handed out Bibles and said read that and work it all out from that. Jesus told the apostles “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation" (Mk 16:15). They preached the truths that had been handed down to them.
What I am suggesting is that reading the Bible directly is far superior to reading someone's opinion of it. The disciples read the Bible (the OT). The Bereans were commended for checking Paul's "preached" message against the Bible. Does the Catholic Church have the humility and godly confidence to subject all its teaching to the confirmation of Scripture?
 
B

Bede

Guest
Makes for a good sales pitch with Catholics, but is inaccurate.

30,000 Protestant Denominations? - http://www.justforcatholics.org/a86.htm
Don't believe justforcatholics. It tells lies and half truths.
Note I didn't claim there were 30,000 protestant denominations - I said denominations and one pastor churches.

However
The World Christian Encyclopedia estimates there are 33,000 protestant denominations.
And the Center for Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, estimates there are currently 47,000 denominations.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
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What you have on the right is a catechetical summary of the commandment.

The left hand side is also a catechetical summary.
Does it list everything in Ex 20:1-17? No it doesn't.
Does it tell you not to covet your neighbors wife? No it doesn't.

When I was at school ( long time ago) every child was given what was known as the "penny catechism". I have a reprint (lost the original) and it contains the full text of Ex 20:4-5. The Catholic Church has hidden nothing.
The Catholic Church was responsible for giving me the hand held size set of the 10 Commandments (which felt like they were made of stone) I received while in Catholic school and the hand held size set I was given takes away the 2nd commandment (against making images unto ourselves) and makes the 10th commandment into two commandments. You can try and justify that all you want, but I'm not buying it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,784
4,451
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The Catholic Church had the wrong doctrine from their very inception. It started when Constantine decided to Christianize the Roman Empire after his vision "In hoc signo vinces." They have done a lot of bad trying to win the world for Christ.

Other than their well meaning but errant doctrine, they are no more or less evil than the rest of us. We all have a capacity for evil. Whenever Catholics take a stand against the same things I stand against, I am with them. We can view all Christians as brothers and sisters in Christ. Our place is to not judge those outside our own congregations.

That said, I could not worship with Catholics because of their open idolatry. But I can't get along with many Protestant denominations either. We can all love each other and not judge, usually from a distance.

Oh, and you question about the five solas or any other Protestant dogma is that it is all predicated on the Protestant Movement. Instead of breaking away from the RCC, they should have started from scratch. View attachment 213443
question about the five solas or any other Protestant dogma is that it is all predicated on the Protestant Movement.
This doesn't explain what makes the 5 solas wrong. You have said some things that are off to me so I am just needing clarification.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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While your reply is quite typical it in no way refutes the facts that rome teaches a false gospel.

As a catholic how would you advise another person to get saved?

For many years rome taught that there was no salvation outside the catholic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger