Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!
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Here's a testimony I heard once .. A young boy who couldn't talk plain went to a church and got hands laid on him , he fell and from that point on he talked fine, his own mother said ''God didn't heal you, you bumped your head and it loosed your tongue''
If you need proof, why faith ? Nobody cares if you or anybody believes, what has Jesus did for you ?
If you need proof, why faith ? Nobody cares if you or anybody believes, what has Jesus did for you ?
I wouldn't say that is not possible. I don't think anyone would claim that everything that claims to be a gift is. I have not interpreted tongues in church, but some people I have spoken to who have interpreted tongues have experienced receiving the interpretation, and someone else giving the same interpretation before they did. My college roommate experienced that, and so did a good friend of mine, and one or two other people I have discussed it with. I've gotten words of knowledge about people, only to hear the same thing spoken in a prophecy before I shared anything. That's happened to me at least twice that i can think about.
Similar things happen with prophecy, where one person gets it, and another shares it first. There are also prophecies you hear when you go one place, and someone else says the same thing or parts of it when you go elsewhere and someone else prophesies over you. I've experienced this. Paul said that the Spirit witnessed in every city that bonds and affliction awaited him.
There are also prophecies regarding things the one prophesying could not naturally know, prophesying what another person was thinking or thinks during the prophecy, details about the person's life. Sometimes the person prophesying doesn't quite understand all the significance of the details being prophesied.
Similar things happen with prophecy, where one person gets it, and another shares it first. There are also prophecies you hear when you go one place, and someone else says the same thing or parts of it when you go elsewhere and someone else prophesies over you. I've experienced this. Paul said that the Spirit witnessed in every city that bonds and affliction awaited him.
There are also prophecies regarding things the one prophesying could not naturally know, prophesying what another person was thinking or thinks during the prophecy, details about the person's life. Sometimes the person prophesying doesn't quite understand all the significance of the details being prophesied.
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Have you read 'Miracles' by Craig Keener to look at his documentation. Don't pretend there is nothing out there if you haven't researched and have not looked up any sources people refer you to when you ask for them.
I notice a pattern. You post an unbiblical idea, it is refuted with scripture. Then you repeat the same idea again. You ignore evidence and continue repeating the same thing.
I notice a pattern. You post an unbiblical idea, it is refuted with scripture. Then you repeat the same idea again. You ignore evidence and continue repeating the same thing.
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Paul no longer healed his sick friends in the Epistles. Why?
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)
“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)
(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)
“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)
“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)
Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)
“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)
(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)
“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)
“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)
Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
I don't see how this supports your theory.
Paul was sick early on. His first visit to the Galatians is probably recorded in Acts 14 since those cities were in the province of Galatia. At the latest it is clearly by Acts 16 because the province of Galatia is clearly mentioned as a place he went. So he got sick early on, then did great miracles and healed a lot of people.
Your theory seems to be that he could just heal people automatically wherever he went, without regard to the will of God, whether he had faith for it, or whether they did. In one of the Lyaconian cities, he saw that a lame man had faith to be healed and told the man to stand up and he did. The faith of the sick person was a factor, as we can see from the words of Jesus, repeatedly, in the Gospels.
You also do not know if God never healed his sick friends later on in his ministry. You do not know that Epaphroditus was not healed through the laying on of Paul's hands or the hands of other believers. God had mercy on him. He was healed. We aren't told the details.
The fact that God heals supernaturally does not do away with our need to take basic care of our health, either.
Paul had an infirmity early on in his ministry, then did miracles and healed people. By the end of Acts, he healed all the sick brought to him on an island by the power of God. You have no case from scripture for a graduate decline of the gifts over time. The data does not fit the theory.
Paul was sick early on. His first visit to the Galatians is probably recorded in Acts 14 since those cities were in the province of Galatia. At the latest it is clearly by Acts 16 because the province of Galatia is clearly mentioned as a place he went. So he got sick early on, then did great miracles and healed a lot of people.
Your theory seems to be that he could just heal people automatically wherever he went, without regard to the will of God, whether he had faith for it, or whether they did. In one of the Lyaconian cities, he saw that a lame man had faith to be healed and told the man to stand up and he did. The faith of the sick person was a factor, as we can see from the words of Jesus, repeatedly, in the Gospels.
You also do not know if God never healed his sick friends later on in his ministry. You do not know that Epaphroditus was not healed through the laying on of Paul's hands or the hands of other believers. God had mercy on him. He was healed. We aren't told the details.
The fact that God heals supernaturally does not do away with our need to take basic care of our health, either.
Paul had an infirmity early on in his ministry, then did miracles and healed people. By the end of Acts, he healed all the sick brought to him on an island by the power of God. You have no case from scripture for a graduate decline of the gifts over time. The data does not fit the theory.
Have you looked up the documentation? Craig's Keener's book is over 1200 pages. That's just one source. Have you even bothered searching Google scholar?
People have also shown you scripture. Your position is that certain scriptures are not true or applicable anymore. Your interpretations of scripture do not stand up to scrutiny. This has been pointed out to you in detail. You respond by repeating the same arguments in two or three sentence posts like the one above.
People have also shown you scripture. Your position is that certain scriptures are not true or applicable anymore. Your interpretations of scripture do not stand up to scrutiny. This has been pointed out to you in detail. You respond by repeating the same arguments in two or three sentence posts like the one above.
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)
“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)
(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)
“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)
“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)
Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
How do you get around this?
“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)
“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)
(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)
“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)
“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)
Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
How do you get around this?
Here's the guy Bobby Burdette .. I went to a tent revival he brought to our town .. People were getting healed and all kinds of things .. One night he had mentioned God had told him he would have a ministry in Haiti .. He also said that God told him there was 4 people there who was supposed to donate 100 dollars each .. The plate had already been passed and I had already give .. Three people had come up and give 100 dollars , he said there's 1 more and he waited .. I sat there and thought ''here we go'' then I thought I'm not going to sit here and let him beg, I'll give a hundred .. Then I stood up to go forward and he looked me in the eye and pointed at me and said ''it's not you, sit down'' then a minute later another person got up and come forward .. This guy refused my hundred dollars ..
Later when I found his ministry in Haiti he had finally started I became a supporter until I retired a couple years ago .. I supported many ministries local, national, and international .. So eat dust serpent
Later when I found his ministry in Haiti he had finally started I became a supporter until I retired a couple years ago .. I supported many ministries local, national, and international .. So eat dust serpent
Some racists may have thought black Christians were into voodoo. A pre-civil rights movement cessationist argued that Negros were easily excitable. There was a revival among slaves during the Second Great Awakening. God was able to slave blacks just as well as he was able to save whites. Being a black Christian doesn't make you a voodoo practicioner. Prior to Azusa Street, Seymour was involved in a Holiness group that was known as the evening light saints, which now goes by 'Church of God', the Holiness denomination out of Indiana, not the Pentecostal denomination out of Cleveland, Tennessee. The
I was looking at the Apostolic Faith newsletter last night from back then, and there are testimonies of people understanding different languages spoken 'in tongues' at Azusa. According to an eye witness, that was what drew the crowds.
I was looking at the Apostolic Faith newsletter last night from back then, and there are testimonies of people understanding different languages spoken 'in tongues' at Azusa. According to an eye witness, that was what drew the crowds.
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This is history, not racism. Voodoo uses tongues too but it is not first-century tongues found in the bible. https://www.dana.org/article/speaking-in-tongues-glossolalia-and-stress-reduction/