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Hi Nick, it not about one feeling something is wrong.
Its about being obedient to God.
One of the saddest attitudes and sin of today, is that man must ether have justification, or answers about why this is a sin or not.
Also, that one thinks they would know what is better than God Our Father?
God Our Father created everything, from the smallest microb to the universe and more.
Every thing done, given, understood is His creation.
Maby the better question is why anyone would reject that which is given, and asked of us
by God Our Father?
Who would be better to trust all understanding and guidence to?
Someone that wants to do whatever, simply because they want to?
Or would one trust all things, all choices, all understanding to God Our Father Our creator who is perfect, who created everyone of us in His image, gives us all we need, because of His Love for us.
Who loved each of us so much, that he gave His son to die for our sins, simply because He knew we would sin. Thus givng each of us, in Jesus, eternal life.
All , because of His perfect love.
You see, its not about judging someone bad, or looking down upon them.
Its about knowing, and obeying God, becuase one sees and knows the great love He has for each of us, and wanting in this knowladge, all to know this love and salvation in Jesus.
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
Its about being obedient to God.
One of the saddest attitudes and sin of today, is that man must ether have justification, or answers about why this is a sin or not.
Also, that one thinks they would know what is better than God Our Father?
God Our Father created everything, from the smallest microb to the universe and more.
Every thing done, given, understood is His creation.
Maby the better question is why anyone would reject that which is given, and asked of us
by God Our Father?
Who would be better to trust all understanding and guidence to?
Someone that wants to do whatever, simply because they want to?
Or would one trust all things, all choices, all understanding to God Our Father Our creator who is perfect, who created everyone of us in His image, gives us all we need, because of His Love for us.
Who loved each of us so much, that he gave His son to die for our sins, simply because He knew we would sin. Thus givng each of us, in Jesus, eternal life.
All , because of His perfect love.
You see, its not about judging someone bad, or looking down upon them.
Its about knowing, and obeying God, becuase one sees and knows the great love He has for each of us, and wanting in this knowladge, all to know this love and salvation in Jesus.
In Jesus, God bless.
pickles
N
See--this is my gripe with the argument against homosexuality: it's all based on the notion that God feels it's a sin. That isn't enough for me to question my beliefs on homosexuality. I understand that God, assuming he's out there, feels or felt that homosexuality is wrong, but by following his every word, we ignore the fact that the bible is the most archaic book in existence. As humans we're prone to change, why is it not safe to assume that God might have been wrong about homosexuality? Who's to say he hasn't changed? Why do we blindly follow his every word instead of forming opinions for ourselves? Did any of you hate or feel sorry for gay people before you picked up a bible? I know I didn't ask these questions before I read it. I saw them as humans, just like us. Now, I've tried telling myself that homosexuality is wrong on numerous occasions, but I can't agree with God--I won't support him on this. God makes mistakes just as we do, and I feel he's wrong.
Still not what I'm looking for. I know how God feels about homosexuality, I want to know your reasons for being against homosexuality. Also, everything in Leviticus is ridiculous. By this shady definition of mortality, we're all going to hell. People focus on the homosexuality discussed there, but doing that means you also subscribe to the notion that everything else said is there is agreeable as well, simply because God said it was so. I can't do that, and you can't pick and choose, either.
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die.
If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death
If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed.
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you see what I'm getting at? Unless you agree with all of that, you can't logically bash homosexuality with that same argument. Notice how nobody else here started pulling out Leviticus quotes? At least use the New Testament.
--------------
@ Adrianv125: This is the closest reply to what I was looking for--thank you! See--I'm inclined to disagree with your conscience argument. Firstly, we have no way of knowing whether or not animals have a conscience. Also, while your conscience tells you that homosexuality is wrong, mine tells me the opposite, that there is nothing wrong with it. You said it best with "sex is the biggest sign of intimacy" Why is it that intimacy should only be expressed between a man and a woman? Why can't two guys or two women express their love for each other as well? I suppose the argument is that the vagina was crafted for the penis? That argument holds water when you're explaining to someone why a man and a man can't have a biological child together, but it certainly doesn't hold any water against homosexual intimacy in general. Hell, the prostate (essentially the male g-spot) can be stimulated through the rectum. Gay people love each other and are capable of intimacy, just as we are.
You really, really lost me with your bestiality counterargument. I'm pretty sure bestiality hurts the animals that are being raped--plus we can't actually communicate with animals, which means they can't consent either. I'm finding it difficult to understand how you can argument that bestiality doesn't hurt animals. Do you even realize how ridiculous that and your comparison is?
Gay people are performing an act which expresses intimacy. The two people who're having sex are both consenting adults, and they aren't blatantly forcing down something down and jumping on top of it, like one would do if they decided to have sex with an animal. There's a huge difference between the two. One is expressing intimacy, the other entails holding down an animal and sexually assaulting it.
What? You make it sound as if reproduction is an obligation. I'm sure a lot of people want grandchildren, but I'm sure most have the sense not to assume that their children are going to have them. Not everyone wants children. Are these people sinners as well? And what about people who're infertile? Are they going against the existence of humanity as well? They didn't choose to be infertile, just as gay people didn't choose to be gay. See how that works?
Also, gay people can have children in a sense. Adoption and insemination are options as well. Being gay in this day and age doesn't mean you can't have children.
This all once again comes down to why it's wrong. God saying something is wrong doesn't make it so. Well, maybe to some people, but certainly not to me. I respect God and I'm fine with his beliefs, but I disagree with him on the subject of homosexuality. Who is being hurt here? The only victims here are the gay people who're being attacked for something out of their control. Yeah--that's right, I don't feel that homosexuality is a choice.
Still not what I'm looking for. I know how God feels about homosexuality, I want to know your reasons for being against homosexuality. Also, everything in Leviticus is ridiculous. By this shady definition of mortality, we're all going to hell. People focus on the homosexuality discussed there, but doing that means you also subscribe to the notion that everything else said is there is agreeable as well, simply because God said it was so. I can't do that, and you can't pick and choose, either.
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
Any person who curseth his mother or father, must be killed. (Leviticus 20:9) Have you ever done that?
If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die.
If a man sleeps with his father's wife... both him and his father's wife is to be put to death
If a man or woman has sex with an animal, both human and animal must be killed.
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people (Leviticus 20:18)
Psychics, wizards, and so on are to be stoned to death. (Leviticus 20:27)
If a priest's daughter is a whore, she is to be burnt at the stake
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you see what I'm getting at? Unless you agree with all of that, you can't logically bash homosexuality with that same argument. Notice how nobody else here started pulling out Leviticus quotes? At least use the New Testament.
--------------
@ Adrianv125: This is the closest reply to what I was looking for--thank you! See--I'm inclined to disagree with your conscience argument. Firstly, we have no way of knowing whether or not animals have a conscience. Also, while your conscience tells you that homosexuality is wrong, mine tells me the opposite, that there is nothing wrong with it. You said it best with "sex is the biggest sign of intimacy" Why is it that intimacy should only be expressed between a man and a woman? Why can't two guys or two women express their love for each other as well? I suppose the argument is that the vagina was crafted for the penis? That argument holds water when you're explaining to someone why a man and a man can't have a biological child together, but it certainly doesn't hold any water against homosexual intimacy in general. Hell, the prostate (essentially the male g-spot) can be stimulated through the rectum. Gay people love each other and are capable of intimacy, just as we are.
You really, really lost me with your bestiality counterargument. I'm pretty sure bestiality hurts the animals that are being raped--plus we can't actually communicate with animals, which means they can't consent either. I'm finding it difficult to understand how you can argument that bestiality doesn't hurt animals. Do you even realize how ridiculous that and your comparison is?
Gay people are performing an act which expresses intimacy. The two people who're having sex are both consenting adults, and they aren't blatantly forcing down something down and jumping on top of it, like one would do if they decided to have sex with an animal. There's a huge difference between the two. One is expressing intimacy, the other entails holding down an animal and sexually assaulting it.
What? You make it sound as if reproduction is an obligation. I'm sure a lot of people want grandchildren, but I'm sure most have the sense not to assume that their children are going to have them. Not everyone wants children. Are these people sinners as well? And what about people who're infertile? Are they going against the existence of humanity as well? They didn't choose to be infertile, just as gay people didn't choose to be gay. See how that works?
Also, gay people can have children in a sense. Adoption and insemination are options as well. Being gay in this day and age doesn't mean you can't have children.
This all once again comes down to why it's wrong. God saying something is wrong doesn't make it so. Well, maybe to some people, but certainly not to me. I respect God and I'm fine with his beliefs, but I disagree with him on the subject of homosexuality. Who is being hurt here? The only victims here are the gay people who're being attacked for something out of their control. Yeah--that's right, I don't feel that homosexuality is a choice.
If you truly believe that then I will leave you there, you can't convince someone that God said something if they don't even believe in the God we worship. I treat homosexual people just like any other person, they are sinners just like us, but they have chosen a life of sin. 1 John talks about how we as christians aren't and won't be perfect in this life, but that we must strive to not sin. We will make mistakes, but it says if we aren't striving then the devil already has us. Homosexuality is not the only situation where this comes up, there is drunkards, people addicted to gambling, etc. What is your life showing a desire to not sin or an acceptance of sin into our daily lives.
E
Homosexuality is sexual sin. All sex outside of marriage is sexual sin. God created us a certain way. If we use our bodies outside of the intended design, it causes damage and may even break the thing God made.
Look at the divorce rates, the single mothers, the kids do not have a mother and father who both live with them. the emotional scaring, and the many other horrible things our sexual revolution has caused. All of these are a result of taking sex outside of marriage.
God hates sin because it takes the thing he designed, and said was good, and destroys it. He wants to give us the best he has to offer, and we go against him, and take it on our own. we destroy what he made.
Look at the divorce rates, the single mothers, the kids do not have a mother and father who both live with them. the emotional scaring, and the many other horrible things our sexual revolution has caused. All of these are a result of taking sex outside of marriage.
God hates sin because it takes the thing he designed, and said was good, and destroys it. He wants to give us the best he has to offer, and we go against him, and take it on our own. we destroy what he made.
E
The problem is you consider yourself a very religious person. Don't. God doesn't want religious people. He want's obedient people. Go and hide away in a room by yourself with his word and be with God on your knee's as long as it takes till he comes. Cause he will come. And if you are hungry enough for him you'll wait as long as it takes to meet with him and be consumed by that holy burning fire, that is The Lord, Our God.
Right now you're trying too understand God's will out of your own logical capabilities. You won't find any answer here. Only the Holy Spirit comes and intervenes to help us understand. Go be with him.
Right now you're trying too understand God's will out of your own logical capabilities. You won't find any answer here. Only the Holy Spirit comes and intervenes to help us understand. Go be with him.
N
What does sex outside of marriage have to do with divorce? Sexual chemistry actually plays a significant part in relationships for a lot of people. You have no way of actually knowing whether or not you'll be sexually compatible with your partner if you wait till you're married. Moreover, what does your argument have to do with divorce?
Why is divorce so frowned upon? I get why in a lot of situations, and I agree that it's sad that two people can't work out their differences and make their relationship work. However, I think there are a lot of situations where divorce is for the best: your spouse is abusing you, your constantly fighting in front of your kids, partner is cheating, etc. I'm all for divorce in situations like that. I still don't get what premarital sex has to do with those issues, though.
I think you missed my earlier replies where I said I was asking for YOUR opinion, not God's opinion. I want to know how you feel on issues like this.
Plus, I still don't get how being gay is wrong, especially since it's not something that can be controlled. It's not a choice.
Why is divorce so frowned upon? I get why in a lot of situations, and I agree that it's sad that two people can't work out their differences and make their relationship work. However, I think there are a lot of situations where divorce is for the best: your spouse is abusing you, your constantly fighting in front of your kids, partner is cheating, etc. I'm all for divorce in situations like that. I still don't get what premarital sex has to do with those issues, though.
I think you missed my earlier replies where I said I was asking for YOUR opinion, not God's opinion. I want to know how you feel on issues like this.
Plus, I still don't get how being gay is wrong, especially since it's not something that can be controlled. It's not a choice.
N
@ journey41:
>If your attracted to the same sex, you wont be attracted to God. Two different spirits there not agreeing.
How so?
God is our maker. He created us and he can destroy us. He can do whatever he likes. Who are we to question him? He can destroy us with his word in a flash if he wants. We are like little ants to him. Our lives & souls are in his hands, yet he cares for us and wants us to enjoy the riches of his mercy. He wants to give us everything and taste what it's like to have him on our side. He'll give us all the protection, love and peace that we need, & deliver us from evil with the promise of a much different life to the one that we have now..everlasting life. Total fulfillment. Better than anything this world can offer.
God creating us doesn't mean we shouldn't question him. We question our parents don't we? It's natural to question things we either don't understand or morally oppose, even if they come from people in positions of power.
So basically he'll watch over all of us, including those who are gay, but once they die, he'll then deny them access to an even better world because they're sinners?
How do we know homosexuality is evil? Because God told us that. He's all knowing. He knows the depths of Satan. God tells us truth to protect us. It's an armour. He wants us to shut the devil out. Keep that door closed. Dont let him in, cause once he's got a foothold, he'll wreak havoc with your life. He will stop you from knowing God, because if you get too close to God, you will know how to use the tools God gave us to fight this spiritual fight. The devil will be subjected to you, because with your tools (spiritual self control) you can identify him & send him away.... and he wont like that.
Every argument here is that "God said it was so" Why can't God be wrong? Every leader in existence has made mistakes, no one is exempt from making a mistake. God isn't an exception to this rule.
Does supporting homosexuality mean I'm letting Satan in?
>To make God look like a mean, wrathful uncaring tyrant. Look at what happened to Sodom & Gomorrah. Sodom is where the word Sodomy comes from. They were doing it back there. It was very popular. They were pleasure seekers. Pleasures of the flesh. Total disregard for their own bodies. God destroyed those cities who were practising that. He sent fire & brimstone down and wiped them all out. He was disgusted.
>To make God look like a mean, wrathful uncaring tyrant.
I believe God apparently did that himself.
> Does that give you an indication on what God thinks of it?
I didn't ask God for his opinion.
The title of my thread is: Why do you feel that homosexuality is wrong?
>Just because something feels good, doesn't mean that it is right. Rape feels good to a rapist, stealing feels good to a thief & killing feels good to a murderer. Our enemy the devil can go inside us and cause us to commit these things.
The problem here is that everything else you mentioned hurts someone, being gay doesn't do that.
> rape- Do I really need to get into how traumatic rape is?
> Stealing- taking money from someone who now can't afford to provide for his or her children
> killing- taking away someone's life, killing all they ever hoped to be.
> Being gay- two men or women have sex with each other.
See how that last one doesn't actually hurt anyone?
The world says it's ok to be gay? Really? No matter how liberal this world may become, there will always be a stigma attached to the gay community. Don't imply that the world is alright with homosexuality when that's hardly the truth.
> Most gays say they were born with it, that they felt that way as far as they can remember. I tell you the truth. It is an evil spirit in there causing this lust. Most cant control their urges because the world says it's ok, your allowed to be like that.
Did you choose to be straight? I didn't. However, that doesn't change the fact that I'm still straight at the end of the day. My sexuality isn't simply going to change. Sexuality is a complicated subject, hardly a black and white issue, but it still stands to reason that if someone is born straight, then others can be born gay.
Do you understand how that works?
> They teach it in schools, and have gay actors and singers & politicians. People that are successful.
Gay politicians? Really? They're are almost always in the closet. Some even get married in order to avoid dealing with the stigma attached to the gay community. Now, while I certainly don't support people doing that, it still happens. The gay stigma is still prevalent in the western world.
> So what does the average "I'm not sure I'm a gay person" do? They go to find out. They entertain the thought with imaginings and pornographic material. Hang around with people like that.
If you're confused about your sexuality, isn't it best to find out one way or another? I can't imagine being sexually confused, not knowing one way or another. It can't be a good feeling.
You'd think people would be encouraged to find out about their orientation. It'd save them a lot of despair in the long run.
>Become accostomed to it so that it seems normal. Many will feed that lust then, and then it will grow and grow until you cant control it anymore. Then the devil will send someone like that to you and you have your opportunity to experiment and enjoy. You will feel guilty at first, then the guilt will go away. The devil will be laughing at you because you took his bait.
But I'm not gay? How am I to experience lust for males when I have no desire to be with a male? I have a lot of gay friends, but I have no desire to date or sleep with them. I'm straight, I feel I was born that way. I'm not going to simply wake up one day and be gay. I'm sure the same goes for gay people with family members who want to send them to places that will "cure them" Homosexuality isn't a disease, and it's not something that can be cured either.
The next thing you know, your a God hater because he wants you to stop the very thing you live for now & love. Lust is a very powerful thing. Unnatural lust even stronger. If we condone what they are doing then we are just as guilty. I do not however enjoy seeing people treat gays cruel or ridicule them, but if they want to know the Lord and are asking questions then the kindest thing would be to give them the truth and not sweet talk so that they think it's ok.. You have just as much right to salvation as I have. I know it must be hard & tormenting. I really do feel.... I've had my sins to deal with too. I didn't read the other posts, I dont know if your gay.[/FONT][/B]
I don't hate God. Even if I were gay, I don't think I'd hate God. Having a differing opinion isn't grounds to hate anyone. At least not to me.
You don't enjoy seeing gay people being treated harassed, but you just mentioned Sodom & Gomorrah. You didn't condemn that behavior.
I disagree with pretty much everything you have to say, but I appreciate you taking your time to reply to me.
>If your attracted to the same sex, you wont be attracted to God. Two different spirits there not agreeing.
How so?
God is our maker. He created us and he can destroy us. He can do whatever he likes. Who are we to question him? He can destroy us with his word in a flash if he wants. We are like little ants to him. Our lives & souls are in his hands, yet he cares for us and wants us to enjoy the riches of his mercy. He wants to give us everything and taste what it's like to have him on our side. He'll give us all the protection, love and peace that we need, & deliver us from evil with the promise of a much different life to the one that we have now..everlasting life. Total fulfillment. Better than anything this world can offer.
God creating us doesn't mean we shouldn't question him. We question our parents don't we? It's natural to question things we either don't understand or morally oppose, even if they come from people in positions of power.
So basically he'll watch over all of us, including those who are gay, but once they die, he'll then deny them access to an even better world because they're sinners?
How do we know homosexuality is evil? Because God told us that. He's all knowing. He knows the depths of Satan. God tells us truth to protect us. It's an armour. He wants us to shut the devil out. Keep that door closed. Dont let him in, cause once he's got a foothold, he'll wreak havoc with your life. He will stop you from knowing God, because if you get too close to God, you will know how to use the tools God gave us to fight this spiritual fight. The devil will be subjected to you, because with your tools (spiritual self control) you can identify him & send him away.... and he wont like that.
Every argument here is that "God said it was so" Why can't God be wrong? Every leader in existence has made mistakes, no one is exempt from making a mistake. God isn't an exception to this rule.
Does supporting homosexuality mean I'm letting Satan in?
>To make God look like a mean, wrathful uncaring tyrant. Look at what happened to Sodom & Gomorrah. Sodom is where the word Sodomy comes from. They were doing it back there. It was very popular. They were pleasure seekers. Pleasures of the flesh. Total disregard for their own bodies. God destroyed those cities who were practising that. He sent fire & brimstone down and wiped them all out. He was disgusted.
>To make God look like a mean, wrathful uncaring tyrant.
I believe God apparently did that himself.
> Does that give you an indication on what God thinks of it?
I didn't ask God for his opinion.
The title of my thread is: Why do you feel that homosexuality is wrong?
>Just because something feels good, doesn't mean that it is right. Rape feels good to a rapist, stealing feels good to a thief & killing feels good to a murderer. Our enemy the devil can go inside us and cause us to commit these things.
The problem here is that everything else you mentioned hurts someone, being gay doesn't do that.
> rape- Do I really need to get into how traumatic rape is?
> Stealing- taking money from someone who now can't afford to provide for his or her children
> killing- taking away someone's life, killing all they ever hoped to be.
> Being gay- two men or women have sex with each other.
See how that last one doesn't actually hurt anyone?
The world says it's ok to be gay? Really? No matter how liberal this world may become, there will always be a stigma attached to the gay community. Don't imply that the world is alright with homosexuality when that's hardly the truth.
> Most gays say they were born with it, that they felt that way as far as they can remember. I tell you the truth. It is an evil spirit in there causing this lust. Most cant control their urges because the world says it's ok, your allowed to be like that.
Did you choose to be straight? I didn't. However, that doesn't change the fact that I'm still straight at the end of the day. My sexuality isn't simply going to change. Sexuality is a complicated subject, hardly a black and white issue, but it still stands to reason that if someone is born straight, then others can be born gay.
Do you understand how that works?
> They teach it in schools, and have gay actors and singers & politicians. People that are successful.
Gay politicians? Really? They're are almost always in the closet. Some even get married in order to avoid dealing with the stigma attached to the gay community. Now, while I certainly don't support people doing that, it still happens. The gay stigma is still prevalent in the western world.
> So what does the average "I'm not sure I'm a gay person" do? They go to find out. They entertain the thought with imaginings and pornographic material. Hang around with people like that.
If you're confused about your sexuality, isn't it best to find out one way or another? I can't imagine being sexually confused, not knowing one way or another. It can't be a good feeling.
You'd think people would be encouraged to find out about their orientation. It'd save them a lot of despair in the long run.
>Become accostomed to it so that it seems normal. Many will feed that lust then, and then it will grow and grow until you cant control it anymore. Then the devil will send someone like that to you and you have your opportunity to experiment and enjoy. You will feel guilty at first, then the guilt will go away. The devil will be laughing at you because you took his bait.
But I'm not gay? How am I to experience lust for males when I have no desire to be with a male? I have a lot of gay friends, but I have no desire to date or sleep with them. I'm straight, I feel I was born that way. I'm not going to simply wake up one day and be gay. I'm sure the same goes for gay people with family members who want to send them to places that will "cure them" Homosexuality isn't a disease, and it's not something that can be cured either.
The next thing you know, your a God hater because he wants you to stop the very thing you live for now & love. Lust is a very powerful thing. Unnatural lust even stronger. If we condone what they are doing then we are just as guilty. I do not however enjoy seeing people treat gays cruel or ridicule them, but if they want to know the Lord and are asking questions then the kindest thing would be to give them the truth and not sweet talk so that they think it's ok.. You have just as much right to salvation as I have. I know it must be hard & tormenting. I really do feel.... I've had my sins to deal with too. I didn't read the other posts, I dont know if your gay.[/FONT][/B]
I don't hate God. Even if I were gay, I don't think I'd hate God. Having a differing opinion isn't grounds to hate anyone. At least not to me.
You don't enjoy seeing gay people being treated harassed, but you just mentioned Sodom & Gomorrah. You didn't condemn that behavior.
I disagree with pretty much everything you have to say, but I appreciate you taking your time to reply to me.