How many sins does it take for a christian to become aa sinner? John 9:31 Now we know that God hearth not sinners.

[Lightskin]

I'm so sorry, what was your question?

Posts 24 and 25. It seems you sort of answered 24 but were rather vague. Perhaps the onus is on me alone in that I was confused by your answer. But I am hoping you will respond to post 25.

 

[Lafftur]

You didn’t answer my question.

I'm so sorry, what was your question?

If your question was.... "Do you still sin?"

Then, I have to admit, I thought it was an excellent question and deserved it's own thread in BDF. You'll find my answer there!

 

[NOV25]

What is the penalty of sin?

Death.

What Gift has Yeshua/Jesus given us as true born again believers?

Eternal life.

As true born again beliervers, how can we be sinners and receive Eternal Life?

He takes my sin away, I no longer have sin. I no longer am a sinner. I need to learn to walk by the Spirit so I do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

As true born again believers, we are no longer sinners, we have become the Children of the Most High God that need to learn how to walk by being filled with the Holy Spirit, taking up our cross, denying ourselves and following Yeshua/Jesus.

We are no longer sinners.

The penalty for sin is death but Christians have eternal life therefore Christians aren't sinners.
Do I have that right?

Let me ask you just one question, what happens to all people shortly before they're lowered into the grave?

 

[Lightskin]

Let me ask you just one question, what happens to all people shortly before they're lowered into the grave?

🍿 🍿 🍿

 

[Lafftur]

@Lightskin - found it! It was post #25.

No, but I have been known to backslide.....

All my sins have been dealt with and taken away from me by the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus. All my righteousness is filthy rags that I traded with Yeshua/Jesus for His Righteousness which is His Body - I am NOW the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. Hallelujah!

I am sealed, baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit. Here's where the FUN begins.....

Every day is a choice to love God and follow Him..... it's very easy if I stay FILLED with the Holy Spirit, however, if I neglect the Gift of the Holy Spirit then my flesh gets stronger and I backslide.

Along comes the Accuser of the brethren - "You're NOT SAVED! You're still sinning!"

Be careful, the Accuser is a LIAR!

I need to stir up the Gift of the Holy Spirit daily and throughout the day by singing songs in my heart to God, reading, studying, meditating on Gods Word - the Bible, fellowshiping with other believers, praying, talking with God about everything...... so that I can walk by the Spirit and NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Sin is GONE, but my flesh has to be dealt with so, I take up my cross and follow Yeshua/Jesus.

Truly, born again believers are NOT sinners anymore.

Not sinners by action or not sinners in the eyes of God? Big difference.

True born again believers are NOT sinners at all - by action or in the eyes of God.

Sinners belong to Satan - they are held captive and blinded by Satan and under the penalty of Death.

True born again believers are hidden IN CHRIST and have Eternal Life and are now the children of the Most High God - we are learning how to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh which we stumble over but are NEVER under the penalty of sin which is Death. We stumble, fall down, ask God to forgive us, He does, picks us up and we try to walk again. We are NEVER under the penalty of Death, as a true born again believer.

We HATE SIN, we HATE EVIL. Sinners do neither of these - they love sin and love evil.

We need to learn how to STAY FILLED with the Holy Spirit. It's the ONLY WAY we will be able to walk without stumbling or falling.

 

[Lafftur]

The penalty for sin is death but Christians have eternal life therefore Christians aren't sinners.
Do I have that right?

Yes, that is correct.

Let me ask you just one question, what happens to all people shortly before they're lowered into the grave?

@NOV25, I do not understand your question. Please help me understand what you are asking so I can answer you.

 

[Lightskin]

True born again believers are NOT sinners at all - by action or in the eyes of God.

Sinners belong to Satan - they are held captive and blinded by Satan and under the penalty of Death

By your own admission you incorrectly proclaim Satan to be more powerful than the saving grace of Jesus Christ. What part of Lord and Savior do you not understand?

 

[Lafftur]

By your own admission you incorrectly proclaim Satan to be more powerful than the saving grace of Jesus Christ. What part of Lord and Savior do you not understand?

You have just falsely accused me. Please rethink what I have said.

NEVER have I said Satan is more powerful than the saving Grace of Yeshua/Jesus Christ because Satan is NOT.

Sinners belong to Satan, but true born again believers belong to God - Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

Labeling true born again Believers as sinners is just plain WRONG. God doesn't call us that.

 

[EleventhHour]

born again believers belong to God

Born again believers still sin.

Your division is incorrect.... both groups still sin

Redeemed and UnRedeemed.

 

[NOV25]

What is the penalty of sin?

Death.

What Gift has Yeshua/Jesus given us as true born again believers?

Eternal life.

As true born again beliervers, how can we be sinners and receive Eternal Life?

He takes my sin away, I no longer have sin. I no longer am a sinner. I need to learn to walk by the Spirit so I do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

As true born again believers, we are no longer sinners, we have become the Children of the Most High God that need to learn how to walk by being filled with the Holy Spirit, taking up our cross, denying ourselves and following Yeshua/Jesus.

We are no longer sinners.

The penalty for sin is death but Christians have eternal life therefore Christians aren't sinners.
Do I have that right?

Yes, that is correct.

Let me ask you just one question, what happens to all people shortly before they're lowered into the grave?

I do not understand your question. Please help me understand what you are asking so I can answer you.

It's not a trick question, they die.

Perhaps I misspoke earlier when I diagnosed the problem as a fuzzy view on sanctification, seems you should probably review the fall and the atonement as well. Also, it may be wise to keep unorthodox views to a less public forum, some here may be foolish enough to take you seriously.

 

[Lightskin]

You have just falsely accused me. Please rethink what I have said.

NEVER have I said Satan is more powerful than the saving Grace of Yeshua/Jesus Christ because Satan is NOT.

Sinners belong to Satan, but true born again believers belong to God - Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

Labeling true born again Believers as sinners is just plain WRONG. God doesn't call us that.

A red car is a red car whether it is driven or not. A person who is allergic to peanuts is allergic to peanuts whether they eat peanuts or not. A person who sins once a year is a sinner whether they admit it or not.

All people are sinners; sinners who put their faith in Jesus Christ are forgiven and do not belong to Satan as you claim. You should be more careful about proverbially throwing believers of Jesus Christ in to the gates of hell like you do. In other words, remove that plank from your eye.

 

[Lafftur]

The penalty for sin is death but Christians have eternal life therefore Christians aren't sinners.
Do I have that right?

Let me ask you just one question, what happens to all people shortly before they're lowered into the grave?

It's not a trick question, they die.

Perhaps I misspoke earlier when I diagnosed the problem as a fuzzy view on sanctification, seems you should probably review the fall and the atonement as well. Also, it may be wise to keep unorthodox views to a less public forum, some here may be foolish enough to take you seriously.

What is the grand finale'? The grave is NOT the end of the story.

Sinners die - they belong to Satan.

True born again believers have Eternal Life - they belong to God.

 

[NOV25]

By your own admission you incorrectly proclaim Satan to be more powerful than the saving grace of Jesus Christ. What part of Lord and Savior do you not understand?

I'm not seeing how you came to this conclusion, did I miss something? @Lafftur is a cuddly Christian and clearly very 'spiritual' in the way she speaks of stirring the Spirit, I tend not to get along with these types, to say the least. However, I've seen plenty of her posts around here in the last week or so and she obviously loves the Lord and the word. She may be a little too outspoken in her unorthodox views on a public forum (for my taste) but she's our sista nonetheless.

 

[Lightskin]

I'm not seeing how you came to this conclusion, did I miss something? @Lafftur is a cuddly Christian and clearly very 'spiritual' in the way she speaks of stirring the Spirit, I tend not to get along with these types, to say the least.

She states quite clearly that if you are a sinner you belong to Satan, regardless if you have faith in Jesus Christ. IOWs she does not know or value the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Not to mention the fact that she throws many stones while living in a glass house.

 

[Absolutely]

That’s interesting, because the way I see it, it’s the sinless perfectionists who do the assuming. I’m not accusing you of making that assumption but rather I’m speaking from an overall experience.

I understand and almost agree.
We are not perfect.
But the perfect one sent the Holy Spirit.
H O L Y spirit.
So,I can walk holy before God.
The dilemma is ...Holy God /sinful man.
Jesus did not come to teach man to be Holy.
He came to MAKE men Holy.

 

[Absolutely]

Born again believers still sin.

Your division is incorrect.... both groups still sin

Redeemed and UnRedeemed.

Paul defines the carnal christians in 1 corinthians.
Paul also said some are saved as through fire,they are saved but their works are burned up.
hence we have over comers and on the other hand carnal believers.

Part of the dilemma of the believer is setting the bar too low.

 

[Absolutely]

She states quite clearly that if you are a sinner you belong to Satan, regardless if you have faith in Jesus Christ. IOWs she does not know or value the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Not to mention the fact that she throws many stones while living in a glass house.

So to you guys there is no difference in an unredeemed sinner and a saint?

 

[Absolutely]

What is Paul doing differentiating between a carnal believer vs a born again saint walking in Holiness?

Who are those saved as through fire and having their works burned up?

 

[Absolutely]

What is the grand finale'? The grave is NOT the end of the story.

Sinners die - they belong to Satan.

True born again believers have Eternal Life - they belong to God.

Every time you say sinners,they see themselves.

I really do not understand who first brought that concept into Christianity

To think there is no difference is weird to me.

 

[EleventhHour]

Paul defines the carnal christians in 1 corinthians.
Paul also said some are saved as through fire,they are saved but their works are burned up.
hence we have over comers and on the other hand carnal believers.

Part of the dilemma of the believer is setting the bar too low.

That is a different discussion.