Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?

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Jan 17, 2020
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You're missing the larger point, the presentation of the choice implies that they had the real ability to choose. Nothing in the new covenant implies we lost capacities and if what you are saying is the case then it is not Adam who is responsible for the loss of the imago dei that is required for us to lose the ability to choose, but Christ. Now, in a sense I did not choose Christ because I didn't choose to have the gospel preached to me. But that doesn't negate that I had the ability to respond to the gospel.
Why would you choose to believe if you didn't already believe it?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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You Reformed aren’t right so your statement/question is diabolically absurd.
But you need to prove the Reformed wrong. I'm not Reformed but think they are the closest to the truth.
 
Apr 2, 2020
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Why would you choose to believe if you didn't already believe it?
Recognition of the Spirit behind the message. I looked around the world and saw that it was magnificently and lovingly made, and when I heard the gospel I recognized the God I was perceiving. My belief in what the Bible says is not because I have come to it logically, but because I have met the One it has talked about. In fact I struggle to believe much of what's in it on a logical, sensory basis.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. All believers are born again.
If the OT saints were born again they would have been absent from the body and present with the Lord. Nope.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
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But you need to prove the Reformed wrong. I'm not Reformed but think they are the closest to the truth.
I don’t have to prove anything. Scripture speaks for itself: for God so loved the world…
 
Jan 17, 2020
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If the OT saints were born again they would have been absent from the body and present with the Lord. Nope.
God is everywhere. How could they not be?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Recognition of the Spirit behind the message. I looked around the world and saw that it was magnificently and lovingly made, and when I heard the gospel I recognized the God I was perceiving. My belief in what the Bible says is not because I have come to it logically, but because I have met the One it has talked about. In fact I struggle to believe much of what's in it on a logical, sensory basis.
You must be born again to believe. Don't take credit for God's mercy on you.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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God is even in Hell.
2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Are you saying Jesus is not God? And that he is not everywhere present?
 
Apr 2, 2020
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You must be born again to believe. Don't take credit for God's mercy on you.
You keep asserting that to be the case, but have done nothing to demonstrate it. It's not up to us to disprove your position, especially when you so adamently simply insist on it and ignore counterpoints. Belief and faith is a response to the preaching of the gospel, and the response to the gospel a matter of recognition. I didn't believe before the gospel was preached to me but my lack of belief doesn't make me incapable of recognizing the truth when it is presented.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I don’t have to prove anything. Scripture speaks for itself: for God so loved the world…
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” 1 John 2:15 (KJV 1900)
 
Jan 17, 2020
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You keep asserting that to be the case, but have done nothing to demonstrate it. It's not up to us to disprove your position, especially when you so adamently simply insist on it and ignore counterpoints. Belief and faith is a response to the preaching of the gospel, and the response to the gospel a matter of recognition. I didn't believe before the gospel was preached to me but my lack of belief doesn't make me incapable of recognizing the truth when it is presented.
Who chooses anything if they don't believe it's worth choosing?