Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

WOW... seriously

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

John specifically uses "we" including himself.

Are you stating John needed salvation?

Btw...... you have many posts to get caught up on sir... I am still waiting. Thank you so much in advance!

"We" in the sense of mankind, not just limited to the church. Does not the entire New Age movement teach that sin is a myth? Why would this same John claim the saints are guilty of sin but also that they "cannot sin because "His seed remaineth in" us? Is he schizo?

 

[OneOfHis]

Most osas are simply deceived.
They haven't heard much outside of their spoon fed osas dogma to know any better.
But the person who has been clearly shown they can't interpret the scriptures the way they do, but continues to do so anyway, is just being dishonest.
I'm trying to be nice, but I've knocked down every single one of your arguments with grounded, verifiable, logical, Biblical materiel and yet you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the holes in your doctrine that I've exposed.
See, I've been where you're at.
I'm on this side of the argument.
I see these holes.
It's hard for me to believe you can't see them after me showing you them, that's why I have little choice but to think you're just being stubbornly dishonest.

Strange subjective argument you make here given most people I know believed more like you do before God delivered them from trusting in self more than Jesus.🤔

 

[EleventhHour]

"We" in the sense of mankind, not just limited to the church. Does not the entire New Age movement teach that sin is a myth? Why would this same John claim the saints are guilty of sin but also that they "cannot sin because "His seed remaineth in" us? Is he schizo?

John clearly knew what he was writing and he is including himself... once again you have to go outside of conventional understanding to make it fit your faulty conditional salvation.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You know it is really helpful to speak other languages sometimes.
In Mediterranean culture the word "perdition" does not always mean hell as in the actual place.
So once again you have missed the nuance of the expressive language of this author.
As well the "saving of the soul" is not a reference to being justified... that is already a done deal.

Scripture can only be properly understood within the OSAS lens because that is the TRUTH.

Do I really need to know the precise definition of "perdition" do know that it ain't the kingdom of heaven?
And, in all my days of discussing the Bible, this false dichotomy between "justified" and "saved" is the most brow raising. There are only two classes, the "just" and the "unjust". We're either in the one number or the other. I wanna be in the number that marches in with Jesus, and I'm sure you do to. But trusting in OSAS instead of Jesus to "cleanse us from all unrighteousness" is a mistake, I'm afraid

 

[Phoneman-777]

Strange subjective argument you make here given most people I know believed more like you do before God delivered them from trusting in self more than Jesus.🤔

It's more that most people never learned to love Jesus more than their sin, so they invented a means by which they can cling to both: OSAS

 

[OneOfHis]

You're doing it again.
You're convinced there is absolutely no other way to see and understand the truth of God's drawing and enabling but the way osas sees it.

He is no longer a child tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive... He has long since came to the unity of faith ... by Gods power

 

[Phoneman-777]

John clearly knew what he was writing and he is including himself... once again you have to go outside of conventional understanding to make it fit your faulty conditional salvation.

What's more plausible? Claiming that John is referring to an actual problem that exists in the world of New Age people claiming they've no sin....or claiming "Salvation doesn't change me, just God's opinion of the sin that remains in me"?

Because the latter is the only way to explain John's claim "he that is born again cannot sin" if the "we" in "we say we have no sin" is limited to just the church...or maybe he's schizo?

 

[EleventhHour]

It's more that most people never learned to love Jesus more than their sin, so they invented a means by which they can cling to both: OSAS

And some people are so focused on sin they do not want to recognize grace..... as though the cross is of no effect!

For by grace are ye saved (done) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[OneOfHis]

It's more that most people never learned to love Jesus more than their sin, so they invented a means by which they can cling to both: OSAS

Sounds like one of the weak and powerless strawmen I usually hear from people who have no love.


children of God, born by His power
are kept by His power and nothing present or to come will separate us from His love


if you don't understand the transformation that happens when God makes us new creatures

you may think peter loved to deny Jesus...

but no

God knew peter during before and after his transgressions


to love sin is something much different than to pray for deliverance from it and be broken over it


not sure if you read hebrews

but God chastens ALL of His children ( not for good works)

 

[OneOfHis]

And some people are so focused on sin they do not want to recognize grace..... as though the cross is of no effect!

For by grace are ye saved (done) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Sad truth that many deny His righteousness seeking to establish their own...😔


"Lord Lord have I not done many wonderful works"

 

[Phoneman-777]

And some people are so focused on sin they do not want to recognize grace..... as though the cross is of no effect!

For by grace are ye saved (done) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I'm not saying ALL OSAS people are like that...but it's certainly a very seductive belief system, right?

 

[Lightskin]

It seems that some folks would ignore another member of the body of Christ and become one who smells, but cannot see. Or one who can see, but cannot smell. By dismissing one another and ignoring one another we are bitting and consuming one another. The chief reason is because of those who work harder to interpret scripture rather than simply obeying them.

Though I disagree with the OSAS crowd, I do glean some useful fruit from them. And I strive to continue to love them. But it’s saddening how some on the OSAS side talk to others with such hateful contempt. Truly grieving to my spirit. Imagine how this must grieve the Holy Spirit.

I can tell you from past experience that the pharisaic arrogance which emanates from most of our resident worker bee perfectionists is highly toxic and causes hypertension among OSAS believers. Hence our reactionary mannerisms.

 

[OneOfHis]

I'm not saying ALL OSAS people are like that...but it's certainly a very seductive belief system, right?

Nope. The way that seems right to man is to be able to make up for our horrible actions.

God's grace truly was not something I could grasp until I left many years of study at His feet and begged Him to show me only what He wants me to see.


Those who seek the truth could care less about what is appealing.

We look to what God says.


What rings true when held up to all of scripture and to the Spirit He has quickened in us while being lead by Him in the Holy Spirit.



I wouldn't call the gospel seductive, but definitely a wonderful truth to live our lives by.

 

[Lightskin]

And some people are so focused on sin they do not want to recognize grace..... as though the cross is of no effect!

For by grace are ye saved (done) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I understand your new avatar.

 

[EleventhHour]

I'm not saying ALL OSAS people are like that...but it's certainly a very seductive belief system, right?

Sure, if you ascribe to some kind of parenting in absentia model

God does chastise his children

Scripture makes it very clear...

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God!!
Hebrews 10:31

 

[DJ3]

Most osas are simply deceived.
They haven't heard much outside of their spoon fed osas dogma to know any better.
But the person who has been clearly shown they can't interpret the scriptures the way they do, but continues to do so anyway, is just being dishonest.
I'm trying to be nice, but I've knocked down every single one of your arguments with grounded, verifiable, logical, Biblical materiel and yet you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge the holes in your doctrine that I've exposed.
See, I've been where you're at.
I'm on this side of the argument.
I see these holes.
It's hard for me to believe you can't see them after me showing you them, that's why I have little choice but to think you're just being stubbornly dishonest.

I too was once on their side of the argument, being told to simply ignore any logical hole presented since it couldn't not be true and probably from satan. It was that flawed attitude that made me look closer into what and why I believed. OSAS followers are merely ignorant but most hardcore followers are just stubborn.

 

[EleventhHour]

I understand your new avatar.

There certainly is not enough wine in the cupboard these days

Nor enough Tylenol!!

 

[OneOfHis]

There certainly is not enough wine in the cupboard these days

Nor enough Tylenol!!

Or toilet paper.

 

[John146]

There certainly is not enough wine in the cupboard these days

Nor enough Tylenol!!

Don’t drink wine, you won’t need Tylenol.😜 wrong thread?

 

[EleventhHour]

Or toilet paper.

One needs a lot of that too........ with all the cr**... well let me quote someone else.....

@dcontroversal

the crap they are peddling is not of GOD