Unless born again you can only choose sin. After the new birth, you can choose righteousness or sin. But you learn not to choose sin because of God's chastisement when we do.
Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?
- Thread starter LeeLoving
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2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
This is prophetic at the second coming. I know you need this to prove your theology, but it’s just not so. No one could be born again until the cross as I already proved from John 3.
What is Paul talking about? Death?2 Corinthians 5
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world? Do you think God didn't trust Jesus? That he would avoid paying for sins from eternity?
The soul being absent from the body and present with the Lord upon death. In the meantime, the soul is present with the body and absent from the Lord. In either condition, we want to be acceptable to Him.
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.” Romans 8:9 (KJV 1900)
[OT Prophets] “Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.” 1 Peter 1:11 (KJV 1900)
You do know that’s talking about the inspiration of Scripture. As those prophets wrote s the OT scriptures, they were moved by the Holy Spirit. They were not permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit, circumcised and sealed. That was not available until the cross.
It says if you do not have the Spirit of Christ, you are not saved. I experienced it and the experience caused me to believe. And that was over 40 years ago. He's still in me.
Amen, I agree. That’s why those OT saints were not saved like you and me. God’s righteousness was not yet available. The best they could do is Abraham’s bosom. That is not eternal salvation. That’s being kept safe from God’s wrath in hell. They lived by their own righteousness through their faith and obedience to the law.
It's too simple for most to grasp. But Able and Job were believers. And faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit they must have had. They believed the primitive gospel, as did Abraham. Their sins were atoned for by Christ in God's unchangeable decree. They were no different from any NT believer.
On Pentecost, many devout Jews (born again) transitioned into the New Covenant. Jesus healed the born again as evidenced by their faith.....
Nope. If so, why weren’t they present with the Lord upon death? Why the need for Abraham’s bosom? The gospel is specifically how Christ died for our sins, was buried and resurrected the third day. Anything else is a false gospel. A “primitive gospel” is still another gospel.
Read John 3 again.
They were if God is everywhere.
“If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.” Psalm 139:8 (KJV 1900)
Was God there? Is Abraham's bosom another name for heaven?
1.16 κόλπος Ἀβραάμ: (an idiom, literally ‘Abraham’s bosom’) the heavenly abode, with the implication of close interpersonal relations—‘Abraham’s bosom, heaven.’ ἀπενεχθῆναι αὐτὸν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγγέλων εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ‘he was borne by angels to Abraham’s bosom’ or ‘… heaven’ Lk 16:22.
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 4). New York: United Bible Societies.
Nope. The simple reading of the KJV will clear it up. Abraham’s bosom was in the heart of the earth across from hell, separated by a great gulf. See Luke 16.
After the cross, the Lord translated Abraham’s bosom to the third heaven.
According to your tutors?
1.16 κόλπος Ἀβραάμ: (an idiom, literally ‘Abraham’s bosom’) the heavenly abode, with the implication of close interpersonal relations—‘Abraham’s bosom, heaven.’ ἀπενεχθῆναι αὐτὸν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγγέλων εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ‘he was borne by angels to Abraham’s bosom’ or ‘… heaven’ Lk 16:22.
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 4). New York: United Bible Societies.
I believe that you are leaving out the fact that "all Israel is not of Jacob/Israel". Gen 32:28, God changed Jacob's name to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel. Many times thereafter when the scriptures use the word "Israel" it is referring to Jacob as Israel, including Ezk 34 and 37.. Jacob/Israel is representative of God's elect (Rom 9:13) which is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, (Rev 5:9). God's elect are referred to as his sheep.
There's many doctrines bud, they're just a summary of what a person believes is found in scripture. We don't question the doctrine of eternal life do we? If someone does we point to scripture first and if that doesn't work we point to doctrine agreed upon by millions of saints that came before.
In the case of "unlimited atonement" we find through scripture it is a false doctrine which places man at the center of salvation, denies the depravity of man at the fall and many other falsehoods. If that doesn't work we point to the fact that the doctrine has been deemed heresy 1600 years ago with Pelagius and again 500 years ago with Arminius...
I believe the scriptures to teach that God has given mankind a free choice to choose how he wants to live his life as he sojourns here in this world, But his eternal destiny is determined by God's grace, without the help of man.