Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#131,841
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#131,841
miknik5 said:
I am looking to the blood of the SON OF GOD...
Click to expand...
And I am looking to the son Himself. My faith is in the God that created this world and He leads me in His ways. It is my full duty to be obedient to Him.

"
Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil. "
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,842
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,842
Bbrdrd said:
We are agreed it is faith in Christ that is righteousness, but your faith doesn't seem to be in Christ to me. Otherwise the modest proposition that you live according to that belief would not be so offensive to you. You're looking to the blood of an innocent man to absolve you of guilt, not recognizing your own culpability and need to obey. It seems to me you are trying to continue doing what you want rather than hearkening to the faith that is perfected in works. Your faith, instead, seems to be in an event. A critical event, mind you, but an event none the less.
Click to expand...
what is that faith sir then...what do you consider faith in CHRIST...faith in HIS WORK...or faith in doing the works like this innocent man did as your righteousness before GOD?
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#131,843
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#131,843
miknik5 said:
what is that faith sir then...what do you consider faith in CHRIST...faith in HIS WORK...or faith in doing the works like this innocent man did as your righteousness before GOD?
Click to expand...
Faith is the placing of trust into the source of righteousness. It is listening to the voice of God and trusting Him to be your Shepherd.

O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless? 21Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,844
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,844
Bbrdrd said:
And I am looking to the son Himself. My faith is in the God that created this world and He leads me in His ways. It is my full duty to be obedient to Him.

"
Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil. "
Click to expand...
When a man believes in ME, they believe not only in ME, but the ONE WHO sent ME...therefore their faith is in GOD.

Many profess to have GOD, but deny THE SON, sir...he who denies The SON, denies THE FATHER who sent HIM...these do not believe GODŚ TESTIMONY..

The FATHER has given ALL AUTHORITY to THE SON, that ALL, ALL, ALL are called to honor THE SON, just as they honor THE FATHER who sent HIM...

All thing are being brought into submission under ONE HEAD...CHRIST JESUS, sir.
And HE alone will present back to HIS FATHER, HIS BRIDE/HIS BODY/HIS CHURCH/HIS SHEEP...
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,845
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,845
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,849
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,849
Wait..is your faith in HIS blood...are you justified in the sight of GOD by faith in HIS BLOOD...
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#131,850
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#131,850
miknik5 said:
If your faith is placed in HIM, and HIS blood, why are you implying to others that you are justified by following the law...
Click to expand...
I never said I was justified by the law, I've denied that multiple times. What I have said, repeatedly, is splitting faith and works is unBiblical. There is no division between them, if you have faith in God you will do the works of God.
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#131,851
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#131,851
miknik5 said:
Wait..is your faith in HIS blood...are you justified in the sight of GOD by faith in HIS BLOOD...
Click to expand...
Now you're adding requirements. What Romans says is if we believe God raised Him from the dead. It is His resurrection that is central to the apostolic picture of justification.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#131,853
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#131,853
Bbrdrd said:
I never said I was justified by the law, I've denied that multiple times. What I have said, repeatedly, is splitting faith and works is unBiblical. There is no division between them, if you have faith in God you will do the works of God.
Click to expand...
Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root. Man is saved by faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet genuine faith is evidenced by works. (James 2:14-18)
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,854
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,854
Bbrdrd said:
Now you're adding requirements. What Romans says is if we believe God raised Him from the dead. It is His resurrection that is central to the apostolic picture of justification.
Click to expand...
Please expound Romans 5, specifically 5:9

Thank you
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,856
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,856
Bbrdrd said:
Now you're adding requirements. What Romans says is if we believe God raised Him from the dead. It is His resurrection that is central to the apostolic picture of justification.
Click to expand...
Iḿ not adding the requirement... You are overlookiong what is written...therefore it is you who are taking away but adding your own requirement...
 
miknik5

miknik5

Senior Member
#131,857
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
#131,857
Please also review Romans 3. This is stressed as well in 3 and in 5...
His Blood is what justifies us in the sight of GOD, sir...I am not adding to THE WORD of TRUTH...
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#131,858
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#131,858
Bbrdrd said:
You seem to not understand that Job was declared innocent by God, though both acknowledged he spoke rashly in his suffering. God vindicated Job's words and agreed that he had done nothing deserving of such suffering. There is a difference between living righteously and being absolutely righteous. God knows we are creatures and will not obey perfectly, and has grace for our failings. This is the issue with a lot in the OSAS/grace camps. You deny that there even is such a thing as righteousness, so how could you know your own unrighteousness?
Click to expand...

That is another MADE UP LIE ON YOUR PART. Who is the Father of all lies?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Luke 18:19 (HCSB)
19 “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus asked him. “No one is good but One—God.

Romans 3:12 (HCSB)
12 All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

Galatians 5:5 (HCSB)
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

James 1:20 (HCSB)
20 for man’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness.

1 Peter 2:24 (HCSB)
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that, having died to sins, we might live for righteousness {We are seen as Righteous, NOT because of what we did, but Because of What Christ did on the CROSS, thereby we inherit HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.}; you have been healed by His wounds.
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#131,859
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#131,859
mailmandan said:
Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.
Click to expand...
That's a doctrine that many teach, but how its understood could make it true or disasterous. One of my objections is justification not being by works of the law does not somehow become justification requires vicarious works of the law. If it means that our faith will lead us naturally to do works, yeah picture it as root/fruit. But many use the idea of faith as an excuse to live their lives any way they see fit. Works is the expression of faith, they are faith made manifest.
 
B

Bbrdrd

Banned
#131,860
Apr 2, 2020
1,144
425
83
#131,860
VCO said:
That is another MADE UP LIE ON YOUR PART. Who is the Father of all lies?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Luke 18:19 (HCSB)
19 “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus asked him. “No one is good but One—God.

Romans 3:12 (HCSB)
12 All have turned away; all alike have become useless. There is no one who does what is good, not even one.

Galatians 5:5 (HCSB)
5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness.

James 1:20 (HCSB)
20 for man’s anger does not accomplish God’s righteousness.

1 Peter 2:24 (HCSB)
24 He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that, having died to sins, we might live for righteousness {We are seen as Righteous, NOT because of what we did, but Because of What Christ did on the CROSS, thereby we inherit HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.}; you have been healed by His wounds.
Click to expand...
This is exactly my dispute. It is not Christ's righteousness that we are reckoned with. It is not His obedience vicariously transfered to us. Our faith is reckoned as righteousness because through that faith He will teach us righteousness. We are healed, not vindicated, by the stripes of Christ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.